The 46 Drills of 9/11 by Webster Tarpley

image by CasaZaza

THE 46 DRILLS, OPERATIONS, WAR GAMES, AND ACTIVITIES OF 9/11

From 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA by  Webster Tarpley, author of the brand-new “46 Drills of 9/11.” Webster Tarpley is the author of 9/11: Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, which uses 9/11 as the springboard to a comprehensive theory of false-flag terrorism.

PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT

Drill

Date

Scenario

1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into famous US building
2 White House, Richard Clarke 1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive, attack Washington DC
3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets, including WTC, MASCAL
4 Able Danger: DIA, US-SOCOM, LIWA Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy control)
5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy control)
6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?)
7 Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group (P2OG) unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy control)
8 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ, NYC October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane into UN HQ NYC
9 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ NYC October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes FedEx plane with WMD into UN HQ NYC
10 Pentagon MASCAL exercise Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon, MASCAL
11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio that had turned its transponder off
12 Positive Force ’01: NORAD plus a dozen agencies; worldwide April 17-26, 2001 COG; attacks on transportation; one scenario: terrorist group hijacking commercial airliner and flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack)
13 Unified Vision ’01: US JFCOM; US CENTCOM; US SOCOM: 40 agencies May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan (prepared Operation Enduring Freedom)
14 Red Ex (Recognition, Evaluation, and Decision-Making Exercise); NYC OEM; FDNY; NYPD; FEMA; FBI May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in New York City (WTC attack, demolition)
15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: US-Canada multi-agency drill; NORAD; SEADS; Coast Guard, Army, Navy June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based Expeditionary Connectivity Center (JBECC) mobile radar command center tested. (Pentagon attack)
16 Mall Strike 2001, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (near Shanksville); 600 local first responders and emergency managers June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination; (indoctrination of first responders).
17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field office, Miami-Dade County Police Department. Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over Florida
18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army Airfield helicopter base MASCAL June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon (indoctrination of first responders).
19 US Department of Transportation Hijacking Exercise August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis Management Center drilled hijacks; simulated cell phone calls.
20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San Francisco
PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT (continued)

Drill

Date

Scenario

21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin Po” to Seattle
22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up
23 NORAD SEADS NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from Cuba hijacked by asylum seekers, lands at Dobbins Air Force Base in Georgia
ON 9/11

Drill

Date

Scenario

24 FBI training exercise in Monterey, California for FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Through 9/11 Diverts top FBI, CIA anti-terrorist and special operations agents and heavy equipment away from Boston, NYC, Washington DC
25 NORAD annual readiness drill, Cheyenne Mountain, CO (Vigilant Guardian) 9/11 Full ‘battle staff’ levels to test entire organization
26 Vigilant Guardian: NORAD, NEADS, US-Canada 9/11 Live-fly hijacking and air defense; hijack multiplication, diversion and confusion
27 NORAD/JCS Vigilant Warrior Through 9/11 Reported by Richard Clarke
28 Operation Southern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 174th Fighter Wing, New York Air National Guard, to Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, to impose no-fly zone over southern Iraq
29 Operation Northern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 6 fighters from Langley AFB sent to Incirlik AFB, Turkey to impose no-fly zone over northern Iraq
30 Operation Northern Vigilance Through 9/11 Diverts fighters, 350 personnel to Alaska and northern Canada to counter a Russian bomber drill
31 Operation Northern Guardian, Keflavik AFB, Iceland Through 9/11 Diverts fighters from Langley Air Force Base (Virginia) deployed to Keflavik AFB, Iceland to counter a Russian bomber drill
32 Red Flag, Nellis AFB, Nevada: 100 pilots 9/11 Diverts most F-15s of 71st Fighter Squadron, Langley AFB, VA; DC ANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron of Andrews Air Force Base also depleted.
33 Andrews AFB local drill 9/11 Diverts 3 F-16s to North Carolina
34 National Reconnaissance Office drill, Chantilly, Virginia 9/11 Simulated plane crash into high-rise government building; satellite imaging (WTC attack)
35 Tripod II, New York City 9/11 Response to biochemical attack; run from backup command center at Pier 92, Hudson River.
36 Fort Meyer VAEducation Centertraining drill for local firemen 9/11 Assembled and indoctrinated Pentagon first responders.
37 Timely Alert II, Fort Monmouth, New Jersey 9/11 Indoctrination of WTC first responders.
38 World Trade Center Emergency Drill, Fiduciary Trust Co., 97th floor, South Tower 9/11 Meeting called to assemble and silence unreliable outside contractors?
ON 9/11 (continued)

Drill

Date

Scenario

39 Global Guardian, STRATCOM: Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Barksdale AFB, Louisiana; Minot AFB, North Dakota; Whiteman AFB, Missouri. 9/11 Nuclear warfighting; Armageddon. (deterrence of Russia and China during invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan)
40 Amalgam Warrior 9/11 Large live-fly air defense and air intercept, tracking, and surveillance drill; air defense against foreign retaliation.
41 Crown Vigilance, Air Combat Command 9/11 No details known.
42 Apollo Guardian, US Space Command 9/11 No details known.
43 AWACS drill, ordered by NORAD commander Gen. Larry Arnold 9/11 Two AWACS aircraft from Tinker AFB, Oklahoma sent over Washington DC and Florida; surveillance of capital and president during coup.
44 Global Guardian Computer Network Attack 9/11 Enemy forces “war dialed” STRATCOM’s telephone and fax systems; “bad insider” has access to key C³ system (missile launch option)
45 STRATCOM Strategic Advisory Committee, Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Andrews AFB, MD; Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio. 9/11 Three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes (Doomsday or Looking Glass) airborne; passengers include Brent Scowcroft; Warren Buffet at Offutt. (Committee. of Public Safety option?)
IN ADVANCED PREPARATION ON 9/11

Drill

Date

Scenario

46 Amalgam Virgo ‘02 Scheduled for June 2002 Air defense, interception, surveillance, and pursuit drill; Delta 757 with real Delta pilots, actors as passengers, FBI as hijackers – deviated from Salt Lake City to Hawaii; Canadian police to hijack DC-9 near Vancouver BC




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211 responses to “The 46 Drills of 9/11 by Webster Tarpley

  1. 9/11 is in the title – so we will hear from the usual gaggle of shills and disinfo agents, and if they are not, then they are just morons. C’mon guys, we are waiting for you to tell us how you support the mass-murderers that pulled off 9/11.

    You know how it goes, we tell you a fact, something like this: 200+ Israelis arrested in connection with 9/11,

    http://911falseflagarchive.blogspot.com/2009/10/around-200-israelis-inside-us-with.html (one of over 8 million Google hits)

    and then you come back and say something pithy about tin-foil hats, or maybe a denigrating term about “troofers” .

    Funny thing, if we are “truthers”, then I guess that makes you “liars”.

  2. itsonlyausername

    Sounds to me like the entire US defence mechanism was hijacked or am I missing something here?
    When the enemy came to play there was no-one at home to play with. Straight run to the goal.

    So with all the previous intel on this threat showing the threat as being real and imminent why send your troops (airborne variety) off on stupid jaunts, all of which have been designed to combat exactly something like this happening. Makes real fools of the military because they practiced so hard to get ready for an event like this and then fell down on the day (despite knowing about it in advance from all that red hot intel) because they got sent out into the sticks. How convincing is that as a reason for falling down on the job? Not a very good one actually. To my mind if I was in charge I would never send my entire airborne divisions offski when there is even no threat posted. That is seriously stupid and just asking for trouble. However to actually do it and leave no-one home to defend the realm in any meaningful way when there is a known threat on the horizon is in itself a dereliction of duty on the part of the people in charge of military operations. I doubt they will be hauled over the coals for it though.
    In other words they deliberately sent the troops off elsewhere so the attack could go forward unhindered and then successfully generate a mass outpouring of grief and anger towards those terrorists (just as planned) and thus a justifiable excuse to suggest a retalitory attack on the nest of vipers who the population has been told hailed from…..Iraq! When in fact they did not. But hey why spoil a good reason for a bit of gratutitous revenge when you have already got a bit of a downer on the guy in Iraq and besides he has loads of oil and the US wants to control it and the country and have a foothold in the Middle East. Game plan boys and girls.

    Only one thing worries me. How are the people going to take it when they find out they were hit by their own side and then duped into commiting an illegal war by way of revenge? Who are they going to go after for all those innocent people killed after 9/11? The troops and the people in Iraq? They are as much victims of 9/11 as the poor souls in the WTC and all the other sites that were hit that day.
    Still too many unanswered questions for my liking.

    • “When the enemy came to play there was no-one at home to play with. Straight run to the goal. ”
      We had the entire alert system still in place and it obviously was used if we had aircraft airborne within minutes of the call.

      “So with all the previous intel on this threat showing the threat as being real and imminent why send your troops (airborne variety) off on stupid jaunts,”
      All alert auircraft were in their place waiting for a call. It is against protocol to use actual alert aircraft in an exercise.

      “To my mind if I was in charge I would never send my entire airborne divisions ”
      The Army is not involved in air defense.

      “In other words they deliberately sent the troops off elsewhere so the attack could go forward unhindered and then successfully generate a mass outpouring of grief and anger towards those terrorists ”
      you ever wonder why a person given helf the story can just jump to such conclusions?

      “Still too many unanswered questions for my liking.”
      If you don’t like the answers, they are still answers.

  3. itsonlyausername

    Oh and one more thing. I know those two jets that hit the WTC couldn’t have demolished the towers. Not enough of an impact or subsequent fire storm to acheive that effect. It had to have some help.

    • “I know those two jets that hit the WTC couldn’t have demolished the towers.”

      Based on what experience, education, or training? I’m sure you meant to use “I think…”.

  4. Of course prior to these: the first trial run with the blind sheik and the FEMA manual with the Twin Towers in the gunsights. Nothing to see here citizens, move along.

  5. who could have predicted……..

  6. great post, peter. thanks

  7. So these drills started under Clinton and continued under Bush?

  8. Tarpley does an excellent job of describing the false-flag scenarios used in operations like 9/11 and 7/7.

    Another good source of information is Captain Eric May of Ghost Troop
    http://www.ghosttroop.net/

  9. Webster Tarpley was featured last week on the Kevin Barrett show – American Freedom Radio:

    http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/archive/Truth-Jihad-32k-082411.mp3.

  10. A life changing event then? As for martial law is that the patriot act your referring to?

  11. Ah! Thanks for the info. Got some reading to do now. If I can find anything that is.

  12. Just as well I’m still here then. After all I reckon that safety in numbers only works if there’s two of you. :)
    Here is one little item I found about Continuity of Government
    http://www.philipbrennan.net/2010/07/08/possible-uk-sites-of-mass-detention-centres-continuity-of-government-uk-plans/

    I live near one of these bases. :)

  13. I see that you quickly and quietly removed my comment from yesterday.
    I guess my words hit too close to home then… and that you really can’t handle the truth. I anticipate the same from this post and so I’ll be quick…

    One can only conclude that Freedom of Speech is dead and buried at COTO2 and that fascism and censorship are alive and well.

    Congratulations “casazaza”. When the NWO and their fascist minions have finally taken over and incarcerated the last of us in their FEMA camps, I know that YOU will gratefully accept your position as “Minister of Misinformation and Censorship” and that you will be kneeling in obedience while accepting your daily allotment of breadcrumbs and oral phallus — while publicly espousing Truth and Justice.

    Hypocrite!

    Shame on you!

    • I removed your comment because you had nothing to say about the Webster Tarpley article – and you were only interested in insulting me, the poster. This abhorrent behaviour is the mark of an idiot, and will not be tolerated.

      Now, did you have something cogent to say in refutation of the war games going on with 9/11 exposing the complicit US government, or did you want to whine and cry some more, or maybe continue your personal insults exposing your lack of intelligence.

      • “and you were only interested in insulting me, the poster. This abhorrent behaviour is the mark of an idiot, and will not be tolerated. ”

        Is this rule enforced on both sides?

  14. I woke up listening to KPFA/Pacifica with Amy Goodman broacasting from the firehouse. First thought was that Bush atacked NYC. 2nd thought was they wouldn’t dare. 3d thought was EMPIRE. Not being a trusting soul I started connecting dots. A little later I thought through the story line and pondered. A few years later I understood how Pacifica played an important role in the cover up. The intersting idea here is that the attempted takeover of WBAI earlier that year that got Amy on TV from the Firehouse was an integral part of the plan. Yes, she is a Left Gatekeeper.

  15. NORAD had its usual complement of 2 fueled and armed F-15s at Otis, and 2 similarly equipped F-16s at Langley on 9/11. Andrews and other bases within close range of NYC and DC were not part of the NORAD standby system, which consisted of 14 planes nationwide, and whatever drills they were conducting were routine. No drill interfered with NORAD’s response to the 4 hijackings on 9/11, nor did any drill ever conducted by any of them address any air attack scenario originating from within US borders.
    The Otis F-15s received the order to scramble at ~8:46 AM, or approximately the same time that AA 11 crashed into the North Tower. NORAD did not monitor commercial air traffic in US airspace, and relied solely on the FAA for notification of trouble, which had never before included suicide hijackings. The FAA issued a completely unprecedented nationwide ATC Zero order ~8 minutes after AA 77 crashed into the Pentagon, and at that time there were still nearly 4,000 planes in US airspace. The fighters that were airborne did not yet have “weapons free” status, i.e. a “shoot-down” order from Cheney or Bush.
    Extensive information on US air defense capability and protocols on 9/11 is contained in Touching History, by Lynn Spencer, who also presented this comprehensive timeline of 9/11:
    http://cleartheskies.com/timeline.html

  16. Yes, roggie, it’s highly suspicious that everyone didn’t report exactly the same thing in the calm and controlled environment of 9/11, since that would have made the testimony much more believable. Perhaps the evil US gubmint should have issued all of the witnesses a fact sheet telling them what they saw and did?
    Please be more specific about these alleged lies, the statements made about them, and how that affects what I posted.

  17. You have to keep an open mind on what happened and also why it happened before you can even begin to see the truth of what happened. Dismissing alternative theories because the powers that be say ‘This happened’ does nothing to solve the mystery or satisfy the people with serious doubts about the whole event. Truth is too many things do not add up. Too many people have been telling too many different versions of the same events and too many of these people should know better. But clearly they did not get the memo!
    A straightforward strike with commercial airliners would never have brought the twin towers down. Nor would it have brought down Tower 7. It didn’t even get hit as it happened so how come it was on fire? How did it suddenly fall like a true demo job?
    Too many unanswered questions which have not been answered by the powers that be. They have instead been answered by the vast array of people looking on and saying ‘That’s a put up job.’ or ‘That’s been deliberately demolished.’ Etc, etc. People with an aweful lot of expertise and professional training. People with no axe to grind but a conscience for the truth.
    My view is that if it had been simply two planes hitting the twin towers then they would still be standing. Hundreds of people would definitely have died. That goes without saying. And that would still have been a henious crime. But the towers would still be standing. Now ask yourself whether the US or the UK would have gone to war on Iraq if the towers still stood? The answer is an emphatic ‘No!’.
    Why you may ask? Because the war required a mandate and that mandate had to be supported, in principle, by the people of the US and to get that mandate was going to require a lot more than a mere strike on the twin towers with them remaining standing after the event. So they had to ensure the strike brought them down. Yes its a sick act but that is what the people in high places are prepared to do to further their hidden agendas.
    Yet the one hidden agenda that even you, Albury, seem to be oblivious to is the restrictions and controls that were also placed on the very same US citizens who gave the mandate for the war. All in the name of preventing acts of terrorism. The Patriot Act serves a purpose along with the Department of Homeland Security who were created after 9/11. However their name was mentioned during 9/11 and also immediately after the event. Bandied about willy nilly by people in high office. The department was already up and running but not made public. Why?
    Yet they said they got established officially in response to 9/11 sometime later.
    Since then they have been a thorn in the sides of most free thinking people in the US. Back to the days of Macarthyism only much worse.

    So what about the 4 jet fighters that you state were on call for such an event? Why did they not respond sooner, which they could have done? It was because the powers that be didn’t want them to respond until the very last minute so that the attacks could be completed and accomplish the downfall of the towers. Too much hinged on those two planes hitting the towers. All the rest was already in place weeks before. Security tapes showed unmarked vans coming and going in the wee small hours when no-one else was at work into the underground carpark of the twin towers. Noises heard by one security guy which came from floors not occupied high up in the twin towers. Smells and sounds that did not add up to mere refurbishment work. All this reported by intelligence agents to the heads of National Security who merely filed the paperwork away and did nothing. That is because they had no intention of doing anything. It did not suit their purpose to do anything. The intel quite clearly stated the nature of a terrorist attack weeks before it happened and even stated the targets. But they did nothing.
    Now you mentioned NORAD not monitoring civillian aircraft. I am afraid your wrong. They monitor ‘ALL’ aircraft. The trick is in the statement you made. They monitor but the FAA make the calls and then feedback. The FAA also monitors but you can bet your life that if two aircraft had strayed off their path then the FAA would have been told about it within seconds. That is because NORAD would want to know what was going on. There are strict flightpaths to follow and any deviation from them is noted immediately. If the FAA is aware at the same time and can explain the deviations then the simple request for info by NORAD would be satisfied. That was not the case on this occassion I am sure otherwise those jets would have been up and at them in minutes not later at the point of first impact. How fast do you think these jet airliners were going and when did they first deviate from planned flight path? Long enough and early enough for an adequate response to be initiated.
    Then there is the point when the FAA did issue orders. They did so late in the day but the order was a totally inadequate effort. By your own statement you said there were still 4,000 aircraft airborne over the US. That is a lot of aircraft but they would still have plenty of people spread across the US in air traffic control centres controlling movements and they would have had a finger on the pulse so any stray aircraft would have been picked up ages before. So why no reponse to the deviations? The Pentagon plane went way off course. The Philadelphia plane went way off course. Neither were brought down by fighters.
    So with the worlds largest Military industrial complex they couldn’t get a couple of fighter jets off the ground to intercept until after the event, or very nearly after the event. And then it was merely a token gesture to make it seem like they were responding ….’..but damn it we was too late’. Awe shucks!
    Something tells me that someone, somewhere is pulling someone elses leg here and it ain’t me
    .
    For an educational aside I found this a couple of days ago and it is pertinent in the way it explains how people can be manipulated by events to draw a conclusion that isn’t the right one. How we all somehow can get wrapped up in events until the lines of truth become blurred.
    One point of warning. It was written after the 9/11 event by a high school girl.
    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2001/09/26

    I trust that Hybridrogue will respond to your questions in due course. I have merely added my ten pennerth to the debate.

  18. From the posting hybridrogue1 | August 30, 2011 at 8:23 pm:
    ‘Not that they actually hand such to witnesses, but that witnesses are led by a talking point agenda, and are harrassed when insisting that they saw or heard other than what is being promoted as legend’.

    To support this point (I corrected a typo incidentally), I can relate to an interview I had with an investigative official many years ago who insisted I had done something other than what I said when I had told him truthfully what I had done several times. The tactic is very real. You do start to doubt that you did the things you said you did (even though you know damn well that you did do them) until they get you to admit that maybe you didn’t do what you claimed. It is all part of the apportioning of blame culture. Not about finding out the truth. So you can believe what Hybridrogue1 says here.

  19. Hijacked airliners are not generally intercepted in the short time periods NORAD had to respond, and “shoot-down” orders are not casually given. The timeline I posted clearly shows why the 4 NORAD planes on standby were unable to get to any of the hijacked planes in time.
    I have no idea what the “Philadelphia plane” was, but no hijacked airliner took off or crashed there.

  20. The ‘Philadelphia’ plane was my way of indicating the one that was on its way to the Whitehouse and I believe was originally either from Philadelphia or on its way to Philadelphia. I could be wrong here but the name stuck in my mind as I watched the drama unfolding on that day ten years ago. However it is the one that crashed into the fields before reaching its target if that helps you to identify it.
    As for the idea that there was insufficient time to respond well as Hybridrogue1 has already stated most of the aircraft were involved in wargames. The rest were being deliberately slowed down in response time by a change to the system of operations. They would still have had time to intercept had the call been sent when it should. Note I said ‘Should’ not could. There is a difference in that fact and it is the fact that when the first sign of deviation is noted there is a brief moment of checking before it is established that there is a problem. However even if there is a deviation noted they immediately send up the jets as a standard procedure. Its also good practice for the crews. Now while they are running their checks the jets are on their way. We had an incident here in the UK this last few days when a Nigerian Hercules transport plane lost radio contact on its way to the UK. Immediately the French who dealt with it first sent up jets to escort it, then two British Typhoon aircraft took over and escorted it forward to Cambridge where it was destined to go for refurbishement. Even so the crew were arrested when it had landed and questioned. They were released several hours later despite having done nothing materially wrong. They followed their flight plan and landed as scheduled but simply had no radio communication.
    So you see it is not beyond normal practice to intercept wayward aircraft, even those that merely don’t communicate despite staying on course.

  21. The “Philadelphia” plane is your way of indicating that you don’t know wtf you’re talking about, and your insistence on ignoring the facts indicates that you have no interest in learning. After departing Newark, NJ, ~75 miles NE of Philadelphia, UA 93 went off course near Cleveland, OH, ~400 miles WNW of Philadelphia, crashed in Shanksville, PA, ~200 miles west of Philadelphia, and had been heading toward Washington, DC, ~130 miles SW of Philadelphia. No other airliner hijacked on 9/11 originated in or was heading toward Philadelphia.
    No NORAD standby fighter was involved in any war games, and both armed and fueled Otis F-15s and the 2 F-16s at Langley were scrambled immediately when notified by the FAA of the hijackings. The TSD flight count at 9 AM was 3,719 aircraft, and by then AA 11 had already crashed, UA 175 was minutes away from the South Tower, AA 77 was heading toward Washington with its transponder turned off, and all 4 NORAD fighters were over or headed toward NYC. The only plane that NORAD had any reasonable chance of intercepting was UA 93, and the hijackers crashed it ~150 miles short of Washington when the passengers attempted to gain control of it. An unarmed DCANG F-16 from Andrews AFB that actually had been on a routine training mission was given a shoot-down order at ~10 AM, but that squadron was not part of the 4-plane NORAD standby system for the northeastern US.
    Claiming that US fighter pilots would stand idly by while innocent Americans were being attacked and murdered by terrorists is nothing more than despicable ignorance.

    • “Claiming that US fighter pilots would stand idly by while innocent Americans were being attacked and murdered by terrorists is nothing more than despicable ignorance.”

      You wonder what kind of American “wants” to feel the military failed us. I guess if you “wnat” the Us to have been involved and would feel “disappointed” if it were found out to be not true, then you really are a sad person.

  22. You want a great piece of evidence of how well researched 9/11 was?

    Take this claim…
    “One piece of support for such a belief is a 1998 document warning pilots that any airplanes persisting in unusual behaviour “will likely find two [jet fighters] on their tail within 10 or so minutes.”
    Did you hear what document that was? It was the instruiction manual for an ATC game put out in the late 90′s.

    “All information is for use with Xavius Software’s Air Traffic Control CenterTM only, is the opinion of the author(s), and does not necessarily reflect the policies or practices of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration or Federal Aviation Service.
    http://www.xavius.com/080198.htm

  23. Once again, roggie, in 2001, NORAD typically had a total of only 4 fighters armed, fueled, and on standby within range of NYC and Washington: 2 F-15s at Otis, and 2 F-16s at Langley. The Otis fighters were scrambled just as AA 11 hit the North Tower, and the Langley fighters were sent to NYC to join them in setting up CAP. Both towers had then been attacked, and the presumption was that NYC was the target. There were more than 4000 planes airborne over the US at the time, and the 2 other hijacks had their transponders turned off by your heroes.
    What any other military planes were doing that day is irrelevant, since they were not on alert, weren’t armed, and routinely conducted exercises with training rounds. The ones that were supposed to be armed and on alert were, and the FAA notification did not allow them sufficient time to intercept AA 11, UA 175, or AA 77. One DCANG pilot in an unarmed F-16 was possibly close enough to get to UA 93, but his plan to slice off a wing and eject never had to be tested.
    Our air defenses did nothing more or less than they’d ever done before when simultaneous suicide hijackings were taking place in US airspace, whether your “truth movement” wants to add NORAD to the long list of conspirators or not.

  24. “My intuition was correct on that morning, Martial Law was instated ”

    You are correct. You have to pass a check point every 10 miles and show your ID each time. Oh wait, not in my town. I called, not in GA either. Hmm.

    Where is this “military police state” again? The only military I see giving orders is when I go to an airshow and they tell me where to park.

    COG? Who is in the bunker? Obama? Biden? Pelosi?

  25. “It was designed by “the Vulcans”.

    I was told it was the Klingons. Were they wrong?

  26. ” between Alpine and El Cajone.”??

    Don’t do a translate on your sentence there. You may not like the response.

    “In the San Fernando Valley just north of Northridge in the valley/gorge under Box Canyon is another”

    You mean the old Nike missile sites? Those have been closed and abandoned for decades.

    http://www.laalmanac.com/history/hi08.htm

  27. I googled “Alien Abduction” and posted the first thing I saw and it proved it was real.

  28. “Hamilton and Kean wrote that the military lied, with three seperate conflicting stories about their response.”

    There was a big accident by work. The police asked 8 people what they saw and all 8 gave a different interpretation based on where they were, what they saw, and who was at fault.

    Were 7 lying? No. They just had different perspectives. Pretending to think that if a different story is given, that there must be lying is called intellectual dishonesty.

  29. “In the instance of 9/11, I use the term [the military] in reference to the leadership”

    Why not just call it the government? The military is the military. how do you confuse that?

    “In a very real sense meaning the “Military-Industrial Complex” warned of by Ike.”

    So it isn’t the “military industrial complex” but the “leadership industrial complex”? Which is it?

  30. WHAT did Kean, Hamilton, and Farmer say that military lied about, roggie? Please post links to their comments.

    • You realize that the CTists need to have many assumptions for their stories to be true. Also, they hope you don’t realize that many of their canned talking point counter others.

      If we stood down on 9/11, then there had to be real terrorists on board the planes. I wonder what happened to the remnote controlled aircraft, or the talking point of no terrorists at all?

      The best part of each of their talking points is that each one raises 100s of questions that they refuse to answer. If they had real points, they should be all answer them the same. The problem is that they have too nany versions to their stories. They even fight amongst themselves as to which story is true. I guess the “truth” is different for each CTist.

  31. “Dissent against tyranny is a true patriot’s first duty.”

    You just need to verify that it is actually tyranny and not just a rule you don’t like.

    Ask those in many 3rd world coutries what true tyranny is and not just getting pulled over for going 10 mph over the speed linit.

  32. For the record. Over here in the UK the information about geographical locations in the US is generally simplified by the press and media in news reports (before the wits strike ‘For us simpletons to understand.’ There I cracked a joke on myself to save you the trouble).

    So in reality the nearest major city that we in the UK would be familiar with (from films, books or history etc) is the one that the press and media chose to use. In this case it was Philadelphia. So although, with your precision knolwedge of US geography, this was in fact wrong. It is however still no less a reasonably accurate location to use for us over here. After all the US is a huge country.

    Which leads me to ask one tiny little question. How do the US expect 4 aircraft to defend the entire US airspace? Or are there more on ‘guard duty’ as it were elsewhere? I only ask as it appears to me from the comments so far that most of the airforce (see next point below for a correction) was apparently involved in multiple war games.

    My use of the term ‘Airborne Division’ earlier in a previous comment was a genuine error. My apology. You use different terminology to us. By my interpretation I was inferring your airforce not ground deployed troops. My mistake entirely.

    Now these two facts may seem to prove to you guys that I don’t know what I’m talking about. But to be honest I do know a lot more than most because as an onlooker I am seeing the bigger picture. I am not influenced by personal feelings (anger at the attack, nationalistic pride, extreme grief, etc) and I am not one to believe the first bit of information that comes along. That is because I am so far from the source and the centre of the attacks. Not because I have no empathy for what happened. I most certainly do feel that questions need answering and at the moment they are far from satisfactorily answered.

    I did start to understand more many years after the event however because I had by that time, for other reasons, got myself a personal computer. That was late 2002 for the record. Yes I know I was a late starter and slow off the blocks etc. Joking aside I still have learned a lot and from reputable sources I might add. For the record I am not a CTist. I deal in facts. I won’t go into details as they are irrelevant to this comment and the article.

    I became aware of other issues emanating from power bases around the globe as I was investigating other issues and due to these other issues (totally unrelated to 9/11 and/or terrorism) I began to build a bigger picture of who was doing what, where and why.

    To you people I would appear to be somewhat ignorant of the truth. Yet the truth is what can be irrefutably supported with evidence and to be brutally honest there is far too much evidence that contradicts the offical reports. You claim the answers are as they are. They are not answers when they are clearly lacking any concrete supporting evidence or incontrovertible proof. In fact there are too many things that have been said and then subsequently changed to fit a story line. What story line is the correct one?

    Then there is this continued quoting of aircraft numbers up in the air at the time as if this is somehow significant to the debate. 4 aircraft go awol from flight plan and there is barely a holler other than to say ‘is it part of the exercise?’.
    I suspect that the numbers up at the time is being quoted to somehow illustrate how difficult it would be to identify a rogue quickly and respond appropriately but the truth is air trafficcontrollers are a far more professional bunch than that and after sending the info out they can only sit and watch.

    My entire involvement in this debate (such that it is) has been to discover any new perspectives from other posters and share what thoughts, ideas and information I have gained over the years. However the main point that I feel is relevant is that ordinary men and women have had their lives cut short because of the failure of the chain of command to react appropriately to the sequence of events. No military front line personnel can act against a target until given clearance to do so, unless they are at war and then they would have been given that clearance. The mere fact that no or little action was taken and what was taken was too little, too late is not the fault of the front line personnel. It is the decision process of the elites involved that was responsible. No orders = no action.

    Finally.
    One thing I do resent is this comment from Albury:
    ‘There were more than 4000 planes airborne over the US at the time, and the 2 other hijacks had their transponders turned off by your heroes.’
    I for one do not regard the attackers as heroes; neither mine nor yours regardless as to who they were, where they were from or what they were fighting for. Only cowards with no empathy for human life act in this way and the innocent are always ultimately the victims in the end. That is totally wrong and totally unacceptable.
    You may like to retract that statement.

  33. You obviously didn’t read my comments very carefully if you think there were only 4 armed fighters on standby in the US, since I explained that there were only 4 within reasonable range of NYC and Washington, DC, and 14 nationwide.
    My use of “your heroes” was to Osama Breath, not you, and he’s been guilty of a lot worse insults toward me, but my apologies if you took offense. My country was attacked by al Qaeda terrorists on 9/11, and again by the 9/11 “truth movement’s” libelous, slanderous, and ignorant crap. Our government didn’t attack us, and our military very understandably wasn’t prepared for multiple suicide hijackings of domestic aircraft in US airspace.

    • Oh Albury, your comments evince so much passion and emotion, one would almost think your sentiments laudable if they weren’t so disingenuous.

      Here’s where it breaks down – “My country was attacked by al Qaeda terrorists on 9/11, and again by the 9/11 “truth movement’s” libelous, slanderous, and ignorant crap.” – spoken with such conviction, yet

      “Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.” —Albert Einstein

      So when I cite only one incongruous fact that would tend to belie such an assertion – such as “200+ Israelis arrested in connection with 9/11″ – it is then incumbent upon you to investigate the veracity of such claims. Once offering a clear and cogent refutation, and assuming all parties might remain civil in this discourse – we might yield the point, or adjust our claims accordingly. So let’s examine this point against your effusive if not misguided claims – was there or was there not Israeli Mosad involvement in 9/11? Now remember, we’ve got the FBI admitting that Israelis were involved but that it’s classified. Also, to say they were involved does not discount the possibility that other entities were also involved.

      So – tell me again why you believe that the mythical Al CIA-duh was the lone party responsible for the heinous act of 9/11, and Israelis had nothing to do with it.

    • In full agreement with CasaZaza,
      Obvious rubbish. Albury, you have shot yourself in the foot!
      Al Qaeda are the scapegoat, a very poor choice. They are chosen as a friend or an enemy, as the occasion requires.
      The 9/11 truthers are genuine US patriots, you should be so ashamed.
      The US government may not have attacked, but they knew, covered up, lied and abetted.
      Your military have been training for such an event, yet you say not prepared.
      To an outsider, they were well prepared, to enable it to happen.
      Not all people are as stupid as you and the US authorities think we are.

  34. I wasn’t worried by him. I wanted to make a point that by degenrating into insults like the one he pulled is demeaning the debate. I prefer an intelligent debate based on facts not fiction anyway. Never did like information of uncertain provenance. Not something you can hold onto with any sense of conviction. Like so many have already said before, the facts surrounding this tragic event leave a lot of unanswered questions for which satisfactory explanations have so far been sadly lacking. I doubt that without a full and thorough judicial inquiry we will never find out the full facts but rest assured the demands for a full inquiry will never abate.

    As an aside I was watching an interesting video on this page last night about psychopaths and how you can identify them. Useful bit of refresher training as it happens. Seems like they get everywhere :)
    https://coto2.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/defense-against-the-psychopath-video/

  35. I’ll second that.
    I can stand the heat in the kitchen. I just don’t like burnt offerings. :)

  36. “Elsevier Publications: a world renoun (sic) publishing company publishing medical and scientific literature since 1880.”

    It is reknown, but not for true sienctific publications. I asked around the group and 2 knew they had publshed fake journals off the top of their head. This is why I did a quick search and the fake journal article pops right out.

    “Now, as far as your ignorance of el Cajon, California, in San Diego County,”

    Good to see you changed it back to its correct form. You are the 1st person ever from San Diego I have seen spell it with an “e”. Also, anybody from El Cajon knows that you can get to Alpine in 10-15 minutes. since it is just east on the I-8. So, if you were to go south for 30 miles, you would end up near the Mexico border. I guess your stay in SD has been very fulfilling. Afterall, who else can get from N LA to SD in 30 minutes on 9/11?

    I love your stories. they make for good fiction.

    So, how many secret bases are in SD? Care to give us this list so I can expose you as completely ignorant as to So CA’s history.

  37. From roggie:
    One more thing:
    “I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, ‘We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.’ And THEY made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.”~Larry Silverstein

    Exact quotation.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Now that you’re reading the EXACT QUOTATION, not Water Boy’s embellishment of it, what does “THEY” suggest to you, roggie?

  38. “Those old military bases, such as Nike bases in Box Canyon, are ideal for the FEMA camps. The idea that inward facing razor wire in meant to keep people out rather than in, is a pretty silly proposition.”

    Most of the fencing is gone and many of the buildings are missing. The bases are not large enough to hold more than a few 100 people and there ae no facilities. left. So, what FEMA camps woud be there if there is nothing there?

    I guess it is easier to guess and lie about more and more things you know ZERO about.

  39. How did they get thermite to burn laterally? In every test since 9/11, it just burned and fell stratight down. They have yet to find a way to get it to cut a vertical beam. Maybe you have some insight?

    Igniters? Prep systems? Timers? Anything more than a trace of residue? In order to drop a builidng the size of WTC1, 2, & 7, you wuold need 100 tons of material. Once it iwas detonated, it would leave enough residue to be shoveled, not trace amounts seen in a microscope.

    It is funny that they needed to fit their pre-conceived conclusion, then fill in the blanks with super thermites, nano thermite, and whatever Jones wanted to throw in that has never been used in demolition.

    Occam’s Razor anyone?

  40. “The CTist naturally cannot reveal the true intentions of the principal for whom he acts…That would be to submit the projects to public discussion, to the scrutiny of public opinion, and thus to prevent their success.”

    If the shoe fits…

  41. Once again, roggie, “the fire department commander and I” is entirely different in meaning from “they.” There is NO legitimate reason for adding to or changing his words, and only a liar would do it. Silverstein did not say that he made the decision, and owners of burning buildings do not give orders to the FDNY. The decision was also not made to blow up WTC 7, but to pull back to a safe distance, since they thought it was unsafe.

    • Larry: “I said, ‘We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.”
      Doesn’t this convey anything to you about the the real meaning of this conversation?
      He was the owner, he knew it was set up for demolition.
      One can reasonably assume that WTC7 was part of the whole scheme, as it was wired.
      Profit, insurance and an excuse to go to war.
      Arguing about who “they” were is hardly an issue.

  42. It would be a very simple matter for your “researchers” to demonstrate how painting explosives on vertical steel surfaces severs them, roggie, and how to get incendiaries to burn sideways.

    • As if this technical consideration represents the contingent element upon which your belief in Osama rests? You’re too much – obviously your obstructive arguments are motivated more by you wanting to throw turds into punch bowls, rather than any genuine desire for the truth. So lets get this straight – the whole thing for you hinges on the impossibility of side-ways burning incendiaries? And you never answered me on the evidence of Israeli involvement – too hard to face the truth?

  43. Oddly enough, CZ, when US Navy SEALs offed OBL this past May, no one in his family or organization claimed that they got the wrong guy, or that he wasn’t behind 9/11. It wasn’t just the MSM in the US; it was accepted worldwide that we killed the a-hole who planned and carried out the 9/11 SUICIDE attacks on the US. Do you know how powerful the bin Laden family is? Ayman al-Zawahiri’s also from a very wealthy and influential family, and his mother’s an Azzam. Look it up. Not a peep out of any of them that OBL was unfairly accused, and they had >9 YEARS to say something. Do they need your “truth movement” to defend their relatives?
    Any serious truth-seeker would also be asking for a demonstration of the hypothesis forwarded by Harrit, Jones, and the 9/11 “truth movement,” since incendiaries don’t burn sideways without elaborate contraptions to restrain them, and painting explosives on steel columns to cut them is asinine. Even if someone went to enough trouble to rig thermite to melt through a column in a demonstration, since doing it secretly in occupied buildings is out of the question, a blind man would be able to spot the mess on the ends of it.

  44. And you actually believe Osama was still alive? and you believe them after they dumped the body that could have proved identity conclusively? Perhaps there are too many folks like you who prefer to believe such myths. Again, and for the turd time – lets approach the fact about 100′s of Israelis arrested in connection with 9/11 – you heard about it? – or would rather stick to your idiotic Osama fairy tales.

  45. “Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.” – FBI

  46. “Investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying … is considered career suicide.”
    – Carl Cameron, as quoted in The Spies Who Came In From The Art Sale

  47. You wouldn’t believe it if they’d captured him and he personally told you he planned 9/11, but you believe that Israelis did it with no evidence whatsoever. The military dumped the carcass instead of creating a shrine, and thoroughly documented his identity.
    Here’s your hero laughing about the murder of nearly 3000 innocent people 2 months afterward, CZ:

    Here’s his reason for it:

    http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen2.htm

    Here are some of the “martyrs” who did it:

    http://ee.1asphost.com/raehatualmisk/19.html

    Here’s Bill Clinton’s opinion of you and roggie:

    Guess he’s a big Chimp and Deadeye fan too, huh?

    • My hero? Such comments are meant to deflect I suppose – I have given no indication that I support the mythical creature created by the CIA known as Osama bin WHatsit – your idiotic and non-sensical comment is noted

      “you believe that Israelis did it with no evidence whatsoever”

      Can’t have it both ways there Alby – you want to believe the “authorities” except when they tell you about Israeli involvement themselves.

  48. Hey Hybrid – why don’t we just open our fly and take a good, long and stiff piss into the wind – OR – we could keep talking to this guy……

  49. You invented this alleged connection, roggie, so it’s yours to explain, not mine.

  50. Please post the .gov link to this malarkey, boomie and roggie, not the truther nut link. Al Qaeda says they did 9/11, so are they just protecting Israel? Yeah, that’s it. :-)

  51. Bin Laden desperately claimed one time that he wasn’t involved in 9/11, and that was while he was running for his life from US air attacks. Only in the wacky world of twoofer-dumb would someone go 9 years without publicly denying it on a regular basis when under threat from the most powerful military in the world. He bragged about it and taunted the US after thinking he was safe in Pakistan, and no one in al Qaeda, the bin Laden family, al-Zawahiri’s family, or the media of any country in the world has ever denied that he and other al Qaeda terrorists were responsible for the 9/11 suicide attacks they called the “Planes Operation.” He tried twice before, with the 1998 embassy SUICIDE bombings, and again with the SUICIDE bombing of the USS Cole, to provoke the US into sending troops into Afghanistan, and 9/11 finally did it.
    Name one nation on earth that stated after he was killed that the US got the wrong a-hole. Why you think al Qaeda needs or even wants your “truth movement” to defend them is beyond me, but it sounds like a serious mental health issue.

  52. There is NO evidence that 9/11 was carried out by anyone other than al Qaeda suicide terrorists, roggie. You also deliberately misquoted the alleged detainees, who were reportedly asked what they were doing, and one replied that they were documenting the event. That’s worlds away from saying that they were there to do it, and there’d be no video and photos of the WTC fires and collapses if others weren’t doing exactly the same thing, as dozens of people were.
    There is ONE alleged eyewitness who claims that they were celebrating, and it seems highly unlikely that they’d have been doing it publicly if they were “in on it.” Atta and your other heroes were not Israelis, nor was Osama bin Swimmin’.

  53. It’s explained here, roggie:
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

    This explains the dreaded “OCT”:
    http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen2.htm

    From your hero:
    “The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it…”

  54. Why was it “swept aside” by the MSM, roggie? I’d say it was either because they were all in on the plot, or it’s BS being promoted by your 9/11 “truth movement.” That’s quite a few more “conspirators” to add to your yarn.

  55. The FBI is now “largely in agreement” with the fact that 35 of the 37 calls made from UA 93 were from Airfones, not cell phones, and the other 2 were made at low altitude within 1 minute of the crash. The logs were introduced into evidence at the Moussaoui trial.
    “No-planers” are the bottom of the 9/11 “truth movement” barrel.

  56. Dang! I KNEW the “truth movement” would catch that Scarebus engine we tried to slip in. :: guffaw ::

  57. Was Verizon Airfone in on the conspiracy too, roggie? That Lisa Jefferson always did look kinda shifty to me:
    http://www.beliefnet.com/Inspiration/2006/06/I-Promised-I-Wouldnt-Hang-Up.aspx?p=1

  58. albury. you sure put a lot of time into this spreading obvious lies on a number of sites like this one and the martin noakes post.
    hybrid and casa, please stop responding to the delinquent. wasting our time is the only motivation left for why albury continues such gafla.

  59. “The photos of these parts is conclusive, it is a high pressure turbine stage 1- jt9d-7a/7f/7k on a CFM56-5B”

    Why would a JT9D compressor (P&W) be on a CFM56-5B engine (GE)?

    Is you conclusion that the one of the planes hitting the towers was not a 767 but a Airbus/737-300?

    What changes because of this? What re you trying to infer?

  60. What obvious lie, Joe? That NIST claimed that steel melted in their collapse scenarios? That airline and NTSB inspectors don’t know a 767 engine when they see one? That demolition explosives keep steel molten for months? ‘splain please.

  61. thank you casa anthony lawson rocks.

    • you’re welcome, I agree. Did you ever see Anthony Lawson’s video

      This Is An Orange

      • The quote at the end of the video clip relating to the NIST report stated that the collapse of Tower 7 was not due to explosives etc.
        The WTC twin towers collapse was also not caused by explosive charges according to NIST.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_controlled_demolition_conspiracy_theories

        However they didn’t look for any either so how could they conclusively state that explosive materials were absent?
        If there was any truth in the claims made by the government then they would be more than happy to re-open the investigation, re-sample the dust and even re-examine the entire event just to discredit the CTists. But they won’t.
        Unfortunately the excuses to not re-open the enquiry will be weak and feeble and based on prohibitive cost, lack of public support and not in the best interests of national security at this time. After all they are fighting an economic crisis.

  62. Here’s another orange, Joe:
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition
    Anthony Lawson makes commercials; Robertson, Cantor, Levy, and Corley are prominent structural engineers, and Brent Blanchard’s a controlled demolitions professional.

  63. The great poet Robinson Jeffers in his poem Cassandra observed

    The mad girl with the staring eyes and long white fingers
    Hooked in the stones of the wall,
    The storm-wrack hair and screeching mouth: does it matter, Cassandra,
    Whether the people believe
    Your bitter fountain? Truly men hate the truth, they’d liefer
    Meet a tiger on the road.
    Therefore the poets honey their truth with lying; but religion—
    Vendors and political men
    Pour from the barrel, new lies on the old, and are praised for kind
    Wisdom. Poor bitch be wise.
    No: you’ll still mumble in a corner a crust of truth, to men
    And gods disgusting—you and I, Cassandra.

  64. Yes. Truth is and few are able to grasp it and once grasped fewer still able to hold it. Psychologically too threatening. With 9/11 the problem is cognitive dissonance and propaganda. “Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.” Ovid

  65. This is getting quite entertaining as well as informative. Many thanks Hybridrogue1 and Casa.

  66. thank you hybrid,
    yep. knew all about taliban being our friends before being our evil enemy before being our friend…. and same for al-cia-duh / mujhadeen over and over and over. ironic too how often individuals within those organizations turn out to be in both. might make a wise man with good eyes think those organizations might all be attached and run by one. hmmm.

    also worth understanding how those “investments” in energy (pipelines and exploration) all panned out. cornering china’s access militarily and commercially is the only goal that has worked out in that strategy. it will not matter much soon either way as all these scrambling military crimelords power down with dwindling peak everything.

    hence the renewed concern over more false flags domestically. political/military leaders losing violent credibility abroad is only a problem if the international competitors do not lose their violent credibility proportionately. everyone is reaching peak everything so that is not much of a problem.

    losing violent credibility domestically undermines too much authority. even if the dhs cannot keep up enough power to keep the sheep in line domestically, the dogs of war who fill the void domestically are hardly a pack that merits increased levels of trust. still too difficult to for this ram to distinguish between wolves and dogs.

    thank you much
    j
    btw. awesome notes on the literature of the pnac/neocon/neolibs.
    factoid: the prince is always at rove’s bedside. seems unfortunate he never bothered paying attention to the conclusion: that all of these means of ruling by fear are nothing for a leader’s power in comparison to ruling by love. not surprising he goes that way considering the oligarchic families are focused on how and how much to cull the herd (aka us) and have been focused on this for decades.

    publius, itsonly, cz and hybrid,
    surprised none of us have brought up mike c ruppert here yet. he is fairly comprehensive. and ya know, it might be better to compare ourselves to bard the dragon slayer of jrr tolkein fame. at least it takes that level of honesty, vision and wisdom to take aim in such circumstance. besides, cassandra’s lot in life was too ugly. not so productive either.

  67. Ruppert is half crazed and a bit of an ego booster. I followed him from day one. In a way he is a bit like Hoagland of Cydonia fame.
    He is being played and his information is interesting but since he is being played requires a bit of caution. Actually the USA has a history of creating men like Ruppert –Tim Leary also was played. Now take a guy like Gary Webb of Iran-Contra fame and he gets killed. Or say a Karen Silkwood who blows the whistle on nuclear lies-she too gets killed. A terrible way to validate information, but really if Ruppert was a threat in any sense instead of being played he’d be dead. http://www.deepcapture.com/ -somewhat covers the money angle that Ruppert began with after 9/11 when he talked about Russian organized crime, drugs and mega.
    You +1′d this publicly. Undo
    Deep Capture Blog: Patrick Byrne and his fellow citizen journalists explore naked short selling and financial corruption, a widening scandal on Wall Street.

  68. almost forgot a bit of trivia from ruppert. darth cheney as vp was made grand pooba of fema earlier in 2001. gave him continuity of government powers in any event that he deemed worthy.

    yeh publius. ruppert has had a tough time. especially lately. considering what he has dug it is small wonder. just the same played or not, he is careful with his sources and info. he has done well. ironic that webb was a close friend of his. ok not so ironic. not even surprising. and yeh they have killed him in a way. the character assassination is close to complete.

    “not sure what you+1′d this publicly. undo” means.

    seen any of max keiser yet? wondering how long we are going to be able to get to maxkeiser.com. while we can he is well worth it.

    in terms of shutting down, funny that you mentioned it. when ruppert was getting all wound up few weeks back over fort calhoun flood waters causing a midwestern fukushima, the website got hammered one sunday night. they toned down the coverage dramatically and got back online. besides the info that he and others like keiser and byrne get out there, one has to wonder what, why and how the oligarchs want us to hear and what they are cutting us off from hearing.

    the oligarchs could save us all a lot of time if they were more direct and open. it would be easier for us and probably be more effective for them. it would not change the current system one iota either. after all, as one of the dulles brothers (allen i think) said about letting too much information into the public domain – americans do not read.

  69. Investor alert:
    Look for a spike in sales figures for Alcoa Inc. as the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches:
    http://www.smartmoney.com/quote/AA/
    http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
    Q3 profits should spark a rebound in share price lasting well into next year.

  70. I do not discredit Ruppert as someone who is intentionally wrong. Nor do I discredit Ruppert for speaking out. He is a mortal man, with failings, and insights as all mortal men have. Little issues arise with him in the way he dealt with his office “break-in” and his flight to South America where he nearly was killed. Yes it is interesting to see how plots unwind, how people with pieces of the jigsaw puzzle act with the knowledge. Obviously a boho like me is not in a position to say how I would act if in my capacity I had information. Information alters of course as new information comes in. One aspect of 9/11 is psychological warfare. So clearly the response to 9/11 by all the seekers of truth is monitored, dumped into the data set, and actions are undertaken to preserve the narrative with plausible deniability.
    Clearly 9/11 is a global issue. As to why China says nothing is quite interesting. This leads me to suspect far more international behind the scene organization than we typically reach to. Especially with this push for total global control. If the West, for example, is coordinated and controlled by Bilderberg, Pilgrims, CFR, oligarchial groups, the nation state is a fiction and framing 9/11 as a national story is also a fiction.

  71. Yes this is the case. However, given their Hegemonic interests and the great likelihood of civil war as their economy suffers and internal tensions increase, jabbing the USA with 9/11 practically gives them moral high ground –Tianamen is NOTHING next to 9/11. So when even the hard liners refuse to jab with the 9/11 spear the global aspect has to become the focus. In the sense that while the exact strings are invisible, clearly there are puppet masters above the puppet masters, puppets pulling on puppets—hah perhaps to infinte regress-or perhaps only to EBE’s. Naturally it could also simply be very complex interactions among the nation states and the wealth managers. For all I know there is a great AI machine-Colossus say.

  72. I have read Ellul. I liked his observations on how propaganda works with sophisticated audiences. Presently my focus is on Hugh Trevor Roper’s essay on the Witch Craze. Remarkable observations on how it was also the social mileu that sped the craze and not only torture. I also read a Feminist analysis of the witch craze by Silvia Federici: her best known work, Caliban and the Witch: Women the Body and Primitive Accumulation. In it, she argues against Karl Marx’s claim that primitive accumulation is a necessary precursor for capitalism. Instead, she posits that primitive accumulation is a fundamental characteristic of capitalism itself – that capitalism, in order to perpetuate itself, requires a constant infusion of expropriated capital.

    Federici connects this expropriation to women’s unpaid labour both connected to reproduction and otherwise, which she frames as a historical precondition to the rise of a capitalist economy predicated upon wage labor. In association with this, she outlines the historical fight for the commons and the struggle for communalism. Instead of seeing capitalism as being a liberatory defeat of feudalism, Federici interprets the ascent of capitalism as a reactionary move to subvert the rising tide of communalism and to retain the basic social contract.
    Connecting this social analysis to the War on Freedom (aka 9/11, Iraq, Afghansistan et al) is more than academically interesting. Tis a pity I am destitute and a scholar of the fringe. I just can’t see paying for the privilege of doing my own thing after long years of academics in college already.

  73. Laws require enforcement. Truth is not enforcement. Truth is a side-show in the Carnival of Nations.

  74. I’m sure that a top 9/11 “researcher” like you has contacted United Airlines and asked them where that engine is; right, roggie?

  75. I rather liked the passports myself, magically discovered.
    My main concern is that as this shamble of a Republic slips into darkness the resurrection of brutality comes on little jack boots.
    Having finished Mr. Roper I was stunned to learn that torture had not been part of the European system when the witch burnings began, but found it’s way in shortly thereafter in the Renissance when the lawyers and church men found a way around the prohibition of torture in Canon law. Equally of interest was that sleep deprivation was one of the most effective torture methods. Obvious linkages with the torture of “terrorist suspects” abroad and no doubt soon enough here in the USA come into my head.
    As to motorcycle maintenance, I’ll let Mr. Pirsig keep his laurels. I just can’t leave the San Francisco climate of the mind. It took many lives to come here to be an boho intellectual –thank God I declined Manhattan. The unemployment thang only hurts when I laugh. When I snarl it’s all okay.

  76. Dude. No need. The cream of the jest is below.

    9/11 – Something smells in the air
    BTS data and tail numbers
    In backtracking the tail numbers on the 9/11 planes I found several oddities.
    First and foremost flight 93 (N591UA) was in 2 places at on time on september 10th.
    Secondly I found that flight 11 (N334AA) never made it to Boston according to the BTS data.
    The data appears to be incomplete, but these events occurred BEFORe the 911 events started.
    There is NO REASON this data should not be in the BTS (government database)
    From my understanding, the BTS data is updated throgh ACARS a computer on the plane that sends out signals.
    Each planes data corresponds to the tail number.

    Since a plane cant really be in 2 places at one time
    i researched how it (the tail number) is reported
    It is reported through ACARS

    All someone has to do if they really want to is change the software in the plane to make it look like a different plane
    Then, every time a that plane lands it reports it as whatever number you programmed it to

    On September 10th N591UA and N594UA were reported at 2 places at one time.

    On September 10th 2001, Flight 0078 (N591UA) arrived in Newarkfrom SFO (San Fransisco) at 6:54wheel on time.
    However, Flight 0507, with the same tail number, 591UAdeparted Boston Loganfor ORD (Chicago) at 7:39wheel off time.

    Also, Boston does not have records of N591UA arriving at Logan that day
    and Newark only has it departing once at 19:40 PM EST.
    There seems to be a problem here.
    It had 45 mins from touchdown in San Francisco before it left from Chicago.

    Screenshots and Data for tail number N594UA

    Screenshots and Data for tail number N591UA

    So backtracking N594UA, i come up with a similar scenario.
    Sept 10th 594 departed ORD at 7:30 to DTW as 0440 594 departed Detroit at 11:12 to ORD as 1581
    594 arrived in chicago from DTW at 10:58 as 1581
    594 Departed ORD at 12:00 to IAD as 0424 594 arrived in IAD from ORD at 14:13 as flight 0424
    594 departed IAD at 15:56 to DEN as flight 1179 594 arrived in DEN from IAD at 17:07 as flight 1179
    594 departed DEN to SEA as 1197 at 18:10 594 arrived in SEA from DEN as 1197 at 19:25
    no departs from seattle on the 10th
    no departs for seattle on the 11th (most tails unknwn)
    Important point being that it left DTW at 11:12 and arrived ORD at 10:58
    594 departed Detroit at 11:12 to ORD as 1581
    594 arrived in chicago from DTW at 10:58 as 1581

    So how can the plane arrive in Chicago, then leave from Detroit 15 mins later?

    Now, inerestingly enough, a man Named Friedman claimed to have flown 591UA (supposedly flight 93).
    But in checking the tail numbers for that day in the BTS, it shows as 594UA.

    This is the same plane that was in 2 places at one time on September 10th !
    Checking to see if he may have wrote down the wrong number, I lookd at the nose number on his webpage, which he also recorded.
    It was 5491, this is the nose number of 591UA. (flight 93) Mr. Friedman http://friedmanfamily.org/ua2003
    Were these planes swapped on Sept 10th?

    Remember, the tail number is painted on the plane, and the ACARS data is sent electronically from the planes computer.
    So who had access to change the data? ARINC comes to mind.
    It appears they coordinate much of the data the computer sends out.

    But wait, there are more problems…
    Flight 11 never arrived in Boston airport on September 10th, or 11th !
    Flight 11, or (N334AA) was flight 198 on sept 10th according to the database, it never arrived in BOS.
    In looking at the BTS data for N334AA on September 10th, flight 198 arrives in San Fransisco, then is shown leaving SFO to Boston (BOS). In looking at the Boston arrivals, the data shows that the plane never made it there.
    The data shows all 0′s for the arrival time and “unknown” for the tail number.
    This is the normal wzy the BTS displays a flight that did not arrive. I checked to see if the flight may have been cancelled, or diverted.
    Since it was an overnight flight, i used both sept 10th and sept 11th data.

    US Air 1237…
    US Airways Flight 1237 never happened according to the BTS database. though, there is an article below stating that it was in sight of flight 11 just before it hit the WTC.

    US Airways Flight 1237 from Rochester was circling over Westchester County, waiting to land at La Guardia Airport, when the Boeing 737 suddenly began climbing steeply. The captain’s voice came over the intercom. “There is a lockdown at the New York airports because of a hijacking,” the captain said in measured tones. “An American Airlines 767 out of Boston that just flew over us, I regret to inform you, has just crashed into the World Trade Center. You can look out the right side of the plane and see the smoke.” There were gasps. Then the passengers started talking, some to the person next to them, others to no one in particular. Shirley Dildane of Hammondsport, N.Y., said softly, “Well, I won’t be having my meeting today.”
    http://www.wardgriffin.com/sept11one.htm

    US Air 1237 was scheduled twice on september 11th.
    Both flights were cancelled according to the BTS database.
    US Air Flight 1237

    Other air oddites include… Flight 93…
    The estimated arrival times of “Flight 93″ (aka N591UA) starting at 2:15 PM, then it changes SOUTH of Pittsburgh,
    well after it was hijacked and a new flight plan was filed to 10:28.
    This brings up another serious question.
    If flight 93 filed a new flight plan, one would think that the pilot would have done this, but the time it was filed was AFTER it was hijacked!
    I cant imagine a hijacker filing a new flight plan. I asked a pilot, just in case, how long it takes to update the new flight plan in the computer. I was told it was almost real time.

    Reported by 9News Staff Web produced by:Liz Foreman 9/11/01 11:43:57 AM
    A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White. White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated. United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did not say how many people were aboard the flight. United said it was also “deeply concerned” about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles. On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: “The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved. “United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights,” he said.
    more… Flight 93 tail number and data

    Report…
    A Virginia company tracks terror flights September 11, 2001
    15:26 EDT Tuesday Taylor Lincoln Potomac Tech Journal
    The recording by Flight Explorer, a Fairfax-based subsidiary of Alexandria, Va.-based Flight Dimensions International Inc., shows the path of American Airlines Flight 11 heading west from Boston, then making an abrupt left turn in the vicinity of Albany, N.Y., and heading due south to New York City.
    The illustrations were depicted through a series of digital radar images that play back in a computer browser.
    Flight Explorer planned later Tuesday to distribute animated illustrations of the three other commercial flights that crashed Tuesday morning, said Jeff Krawczyk, chief operating officer of Flight Explorer. Flight Explorer, which received requests for the illustrations from about 12 news agencies including all the major networks, also has learned that a United Airlines plane bound from Newark to San Francisco that crashed near Pittsburgh, Pa., at 10:10 a.m. had its flight path diverted.
    The flight was changed to arrive at Reagan National Airport, in Northern Virginia, Krawczyk said. .”When it got outside of Pittsburgh, it actually had a flight plan change to DCA,” Krawczyk said.
    “We hardly ever get a flight plan change. Very unusual.

  77. Mmmm. Someone’s been “studying” 9/11 on truther nut web sites.

  78. Well someone has the absolute truth and therefore no need to think.
    That’s the virture of invincible ignorance. I don’t have a dog in the fight. History will demonstrate how much mythology is in your reality.

    • “Well someone has the absolute truth and therefore no need to think.”

      Isn’t that the truther motto? No need to think?

      “History will demonstrate how much mythology is in your reality.”

      After how many decades? So far the 9/11 CT is down to 1% members from a high in 2004 at 3.6% (Zogby).

  79. This is my source. http://911review.org/brad.com/flights_air.ht
    Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn’t.
    Mark Twain

    • Source? 911review.org? Nothing beats a truther not knowing what basic research is.

      See? They are not allowed to dwell into real sources. Pleplius is such an obedient soldier.

  80. “The photos of these parts is conclusive, it is a high pressure turbine stage 1- jt9d-7a/7f/7k on a CFM56-5B”

    Why would a JT9D compressor (P&W) be on a CFM56-5B engine (GE)?

    Is you conclusion that the one of the planes hitting the towers was not a 767 but a Airbus/737-300?

    What changes because of this? What re you trying to infer?

    Hybrid changed the subject to avoid answering a very simple question. Why? After all, hybrid said the photo was conclusive. That is trutherspeak is a guess.

  81. “THE DEBATE IS OVER 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB”

    Does anybody wonder why hybrid WANTS this to be over?

  82. Why are you forgetting to include the link? Do you wish that we just assume you are quoting correctly? Do you wish we never corroborate your claims?

  83. “Amerikan” = Sounds like someone that wants to move? Or is it Super Power guilt? Funny to see it when they live in such a “police state” that wouldn’t alow a person to do such things without permission.

  84. “There is no reason to track down the engine from Murray street”

    Yes, the GE engine with a P&W compressor? Is this the engine you are referring to? Because the govt wants you to think the 767 that crashed into the tower is actually a 737 or an Airbus?

    Remember, if you are the 99% of the world that won’t buy the 9/11 truther fairy tale, you must be committing a crime of aiding and abetting. Gullibility is the only way of not going to jail for your beliefs.

    Yes, when the uneducated need to invent claims to keep their lies flowing, they WANT the debate to be over. That way they don;t have to remember which lies were created for which lies that were assigned.

  85. For anyone playing along that wants to do some fun research, find out why Professor Jones, who is in possession of a dust sample from GZ won;t tell anybody why he won’t test it for explosive residue. This would be the “smoking gun” of the entire 9/11 story.

    He would be the person that would solely responsible for putting the nail in the coffin of the govt’s involvement n 9/11.

    Anybody want to fathom a couple of good guesses?

  86. “No-planers” are beneath contempt.

  87. The question to be posed is evidence based, not emotion based.
    Baiting “truthers” has the advantage of forcing good evidence to stand on it’s own and be refuted. That it is not refuted but instead mocked is not a cause for anger but joy. Psychologically the truth is too threatening.
    Thermate, C4, Nukes Prove 911 Was An Inside Job
    http://www.rense.com/general80/dprah.htm
    See us gov (DOE report) proof: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EdWard-MD/message/141; 4. An Impossible “Fire” (Combustion Process). See Laws of Physics …
    Proven 9-11 Nukes = US Government Involvement
    http://www.rense.com/general92/pr911.htm – Sep 6, 2010 – It’s 100% classic textbook nuclear event residue – ZERO …

  88. YIKES!!!! Those buildings didn’t stand a chance with both nanothermite AND nukes. Were secret energy beams used too?
    :::GUFFAW:::

  89. Sorting through and grading “theories” from your 9/11 “truth movement” is like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end, roggie.

  90. hybrid,
    are you going to continue to let albury and ieaff… distract?
    they are trying to keep us busy from avoiding the carnage that the corrupt system is bringing down on all of us. rothchild is already picking up sg. think it was 150b they injected last week. buffett put a paltry 5b into boa. the oligarchs of the day are divvying up their feifdoms. that is a far cry from something to gloat about for us on the obviously wrong side of this wealth inequity paradigm. while right that they probably will not care for their stooge pets, they probably will see making our lives less livable too.

    perhaps this is a good time to take a look at maxkeiser.com and recognize that “the” trial over 911 is not going to happen. not unless some feudal lord sees such a trial as a tool to take wealth from another feudal lord. even if that does happen, count on the trial being a sham that exposes a minimum of truth and another boatload of gafla.

    dmitry orlov brings up scads of examples in the ussr’s collapse and russia’s consequent rise. putin has not been above a number of humongous false flags himself. in other words, this thread is bordering on making the same mistakes that ruppert drives himself into a rut with. sure he is accurate and sure he is intent on not being the slowest camper running from the bear. at the same time, he does not seem to get into his head that there are more bears than one and they seem to be systematically working together.

    peace man and see you on another thread.
    j

  91. ps to give it perspective.
    imagine how scary it would be if the stooges admitted the obvious truth at this point in any conversation.
    pps 911 was and is still an inside job.
    it is still reaping huge returns for the corrupt investors.
    we still need to get out of the way of their heinous bulldozers.

    • Alburycabinbumboy is not interested in drawing necessary inferences from data that may convince any other sentient being – he is here to obfuscate and confuse the argument. When they say there are 15,000 bloggers hired to fight the infowar, it just makes sense that COTO gets one or two of these butt-licks on the case.

      He keeps trying to sell lies because that is his pathetic excuse for a job. So he ends up being no better than those who pulled off the crime – because the lies which make up the official narrative or mythology are integral to the crime. What about the Israelis there Albooby? – his answer has to be there was no Israelis involved and you are an unpatriotic poopy head for thinking so. What about the molten metal there BuryBabyieassffilatespootershooterTomMurphyguyssittingarounddrinkingcoffeehelpingmassmurdererscuzitsbetterthanworkingatMcDonalds? What molten metal? that’s from the torches, never existed.

      • “What about the molten metal there”

        This one is fun.

        Can anyone here tell us what molten metal proves? Keep in mind that you have an established line of thought around the various talking points surrounding heat and metal. I want to see the best answer to link them together.

        Casa, you raised the question, maybe you will want to be first?

  92. History comprises many confluences of social activity. One such activity is called criminality. Evidence for and against the commission of a crime requires interpretation and here we apply rules to determine understanding of evidence. Among these rules are statutes which legally bind according to the interpretation by case law and rule making. J’Accuse by 46 drills and the activity of 9/11/01 itself that a control fraud is operational and is beyond partisan control or rule of law and is embedded within the bureaucracy and government of the United States. Prima Facie the alternative narrative is false as it neglects the existence and the irony of 46 drills.
    It is a secondary matter how the buildings came down until the use of nuclear weapons is adduced. We already are aware of explosions of non-nuclear devices. To then point to the use of “tactical” pun intended nuclear devices takes the auto-golpe in a very different, deemed useful, direction. This direction is the use of such weapons in social circumstances as New York by a global mafia centered on the Military Industrial Congressional Complex. Consider this, if this line of reasoning is correct, it requires one 9/11 to apprehend the impact of another, not 46.

  93. Simply: government is a criminal control fraud which has used nuclear weapons to prop a financial tyranny. Now it has run say 47 operations instead of 46 and the last operation was use of atomics in lower Manhattan. Considered as a simulacram for the next operation, in maybe a larger city, drills no longer need to be run.
    10 years of an experiment informs the next action.

  94. That is okay. On the other hand, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfled, and several military commanders and the varied high ranking officials following orders on 9/11 are men able to do this deed. So I think that the fire next time will be nuclear also.
    This cabal has no precedent in my opinion but best can be seen in faces called Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Bush Sr..

  95. Short run, I see no ability to stop the crisis. I do not see this as defeatist. Long run it may be possible. It would require less indifference as to human and ecological well being than we see today. Fukushima stands as a grim reminder of the mentality we fight. Libya reminds us that NATO has tasted blood and Syria and Iran are in the cross hairs. Algeria aIso must be wary. Europe is engaged in a Reconquista. Therefore I see a new type of feudal state emerging. In the USA entire regions will be left to themselves. The EU will collapse. Probably a new global currency will be introduced.

  96. Many years ago there was a documentary on tv about what to do in the event of a nuclear attack. One of those things was to turn off all electrical devices because the radiation would fry them even if the explosion was many miles away. This is what radiation can do. So the idea of a nuke at the WTC is actually wrong. TYhe entire area would have been irradiated and there would have been no film footage or any sound recordings.
    As for the future of the debate I suspect that all that can be said about the conspiracy has been said several times now and the poor fools that still hold onto the lie that is the governments line on terrorists is never going to change.
    I suspect that my computer is being monitored right now as the typing is going extremely slowly. Like its having to go via several other systems before it gets to the page. One letter appears every second even though I typed it in real time at dozens of words a minute. What gives? Any ideas as to what is causing this problem/issue other than my theory?

  97. I encountered this also. Read my Ed Ward posting for nuclear weapons use. As an aside, Fukushima surely increases background radiation. Some cities will not get food deliveries on time. Detroit maybe. Some areas might not see rapidly delivery. Subjugation through hunger and privation is easier than boots on the ground.

  98. “As I said, I am not debating this 9/11 topic”

    Yes, you stopped 12 times so far. In fact, everytime a tough question comes up, you get upset and cry that you don’t want to debate anymore. This is your standard cop out.

    The others here just call names and pretend there were no tough questions. So, I’ll just hand them out and see the childish diversion from trying to answer them.

    “But I see other forces involved here, much greater forces than these puny humans…”???

    Hybrid is back to calling on his alien abduction experiences.

    “I’m no prophet” You’re no historian either.

    Happy Honeycups to you too.

  99. gentlemen and ladies – gentlepeople,
    thank you for finally ignoring ieafff…….. and albur….
    whether buildings fall in 15 seconds or 30 when they are that big anything under 3 minutes and all over many city blocks crushing hundreds of other structures is ridiculous. gad on about molten metal all night and day. we are smart enough to know what showed on satellite images for weeks afterward and what those temperatures should have been.
    and now obviously we are all wise enough to set aside such obvious trolls and roll along productively without them.

    good stuff hybrid, publius, itsonly, and whoever else i forgot on the progression to build a life inspite of these insane suicidal banksters and their vampire squid parasites. yep, all traders of any integrity (and wealth still) plan on $5000 gold within 3 years. and all understand what a treble in gold means for the rest of society. their buildings and infrastructure (all privately funded) show that they are ready for a long siege (as in permanent). there already is blood.

    hybrid what we are talking about is what the imf and world bank (as lead by their neocon and neolib leadership) has done and is doing to 2nd and 3rd world countries for decades. now the imf and wb are bringing it home to euro and us regions. who ever thinks that these parasites will stop once there is blood is worse than naive after what we have had jammed into our faces for 10 years. and the same applies to those who think this hardened fascism will not visit u.s. soil is more naive than that.

    this is where the beauty of dmitry orlov’s comparisons of the former soviet union (fsu) and the former united states (fus) grows in pertinence. and to give ruppert his due, i doubt we would have access to orlov without ruppert’s help. mike may be touchy, but he has come through and supported folk like catherine austin fitts and all at crucial times.

    to be sure, orlov’s much more measured and careful observations bring home where this is headed. both through similarities to and differences with the fsu. maxkeiser.com brings home the how of the banksters corruption and where it is taking us. he also does the most for us in terms of how to best provide useful resistance.

    hybrid, be careful when admonishing folk to stand strong and push back against these corrupt cheneyvampires. sometimes that is exactly what the vampires want and have built into their system. when they do get beaten at their own loot, rape and pillage games, they usually declare victory in the face of defeat, declare their allies (who were recently their arch-enemies) large and in charge and then come home. gorby and yeltzin did similar in afghanistan. obusha and probably perry will do the same. they are already courting muktada al sadr (sp?) in iraq. ironic since he was their first real enemy in iraq. even more telling since sadr’s first and foremost strategy has always been to provide no direct resistance while fighting the minuteman’s vs redcoat fight. they keep fading into the woodwork (or in this case sand) and attacking in the most uncourageous ways: ied’s and suicide bombs. meanwhile his army has swelled to 2million inspite of being bombed and droned further back than the stoneage many times more than four. was not fallujah raized to ash 4 times in the first 5 years?

    so yeh, now sadr (like al qeada, the taliban, the northern alliance, the mujahadeen, the pakistanis and who ever else the u.s. can engage in crazy suicidal drug/oil cartel colony wars) is fast becoming an american ally in iraq after being our enemy after 2004 after being our friend before that,……………. and on,……….. and on,………

    kind remind anyone of wars in america with native americans. tribe against tribe against the french against the brits against the spanish against whoever as long as the new u.s. leaders kept their domestic political opposition busy fighting whatever foreign political opposition they could drum up to steal land and resources from.

    the reason it is all coming home now is that this game has been played and replayed so many times, that all these reground colonies are running out or resources that justify the investment of invasion. there in lies the domestic populous’ last chance. if our domestic resources prove not worth the effort and the corrupt leadership lets what they consider useless eaters survive as indigenous subsistence eaters, perhaps we can find enough amish and native americans to save our butts with a decent education just in time to appreciate the planet.

    hence chris martensen, max keiser, dmitry, mike, and all their friends provide a worthwhile return on investment. and as far as i know, they all waste no more time with trolls trying to stall them about whether or not 911 was treason from the top.

    so thank you guys again and i will go back to lurking until i get more time to write. please keep up the good work here and keep giving me resources like anthony lawson and others who help me understand where, when and how this is going.

    j
    ps. do not get me wrong. i have no hope. i am the mouse flipping off the hawk as he comes in with wide open talons. who knows though? that mouse might be able to stay alive long enough to use whatever it has behind his back saved for the hawk.

    so keep on and see you on the other side. meanwhile sleep, eat and work well. cheney hates the fact that we are good and he has no pulse (literally).

  100. Zizek –It is when we watched on the TV screen the two WTC towers collapsing, that it became possible to experience the falsity of the “reality TV shows”: even if these shows are “for real,” people still act in them – they simply play themselves.

  101. It is indeed tragic that so many have “gone to their knees in trembling fear like the moral cowards they are. Wilfully ignorant peasants” – the “beyond tragic” ones are those who sell their souls to protect the criminals. They have gone to their knees, but in this case for a Humungi Shlogging on ole Be’elzeebub’s bodacious banquet of bonerific repugnance.

  102. Whenever you get a poll that goes against your beliefs, you are reuired to state…

    “It should not be forgotten that polling data can be spun as a programming message as well…”

    That way stats won’t have to matter and you can make up any story and claim that there are credible numbers of people that believe you.

    When was the last time, a 9/11 CT organization spent money to poll the public about 9/11? After the 2004 911truth.org Zogby poll, they NEVER did it again. Why?

    Inconvenient truths?

  103. re: nyccan.org/ and buildingwhat.org/
    To Whom it May Concern:
    If you need to mount a campaign to inform NYC council members and others of the fact that WTC 7 collapsed almost 7 hours after the North Tower came down on 9/11, then what was the reason for its alleged controlled demolition in the first place? Did the US government need an additional building collapse that day that took no lives, well after both towers, WTCs 3, 4, 5, and 6, four airliners, and part of the Pentagon had already been destroyed or badly damaged, and nearly 3000 innocent people had been violently murdered, to get its almost unanimous congressional resolution to go to war in Afghanistan where al Qaeda was headquartered and where President Clinton sent Tomahawk missiles in response to their previous coordinated and deadly suicide operations against two US embassies in Africa in 1998?
    How on earth do you “bring justice” to Mr. McIlvaine’s remarkable and beloved son Robert G. by libeling more than 210 NIST experts, Larry Silverstein, and countless others with absurd claims based on junk science by profiteering charlatans like Richard Gage and his “engineers,” and by harassing NYC council members for a new investigation when you obviously haven’t even bothered to read NCSTAR 1A, which is the product of a thorough and very competent investigation by people with real science and engineering credentials? Why do you urge people to “ask OFFICIALS to investigate Building 7,” when at least 125 of the scientists and engineers involved in the NIST investigation of WTC 7 were CIVILIANS from academia and private industry?
    Robert wasn’t even in WTC 7 when Muhammad Atta flew the hijacked Boeing 767 into WTC 1 ten stories below him on the morning of 9/11/01, and when he was suddenly and unexpectedly doomed to death along with everyone else in his group and everyone above the 92nd floor, nearly nine hours before the late afternoon collapse of WTC 7. The FDNY feared that it would eventually collapse, which is why they abandoned any effort to fight the fires and pulled everyone back a safe distance, preventing more “terrible loss of life,” as WTC 7′s owner later related in a PBS interview.
    Robert’s death was a tragic loss, and my profound sympathy for Mr. McIlvaine is hard to put into words, but I’d like you and anyone else who’s thinking of signing your petition to answer the following questions first, since you’ve fallen prey to the manipulative liars of the 9/11 “truth movement” and think Larry Silverstein destroyed his own property or knew about it:
    -Why would Larry Silverstein have publicly admitted even to knowing that there were planted explosives in WTC 7 in the first place?
    -What was Silverstein Properties’ and the FDNY’s motive for blowing up a perfectly good, 14 year-old building, losing hundreds of millions of dollars in cash flow from it for nine years and counting, spending ~$700 million, or most of the $861 million insurance settlement, on the replacement of it, and paying ~$500 million back to lenders?
    (note: it was built in 1986-1987, at least 15 years after asbestos was written out of all building codes, and it had no asbestos in its SFRM or elsewhere. There was some on the first 38 floors of the North Tower, most of which had been abated during various tenant fit-outs well before he won the lease by default when Vornado’s deal with the PA fell though, but none in the South Tower, which was built after the code change went into effect)

    -Why would any insurance company have paid him a dime instead of the $4.68 BILLION total he received if he publicly admitted to foreknowledge of or complicity in the alleged secret demolition of his property, but especially those based in Copenhagen, Zurich (2 of them), and London? They all contested his claim of two occurrences based on two separate plane crashes, and he won in court in a few instances based on individual contract wording, but there was never any question relating to the causes of any WTC collapse.

    -How did he or the FDNY know that flaming debris from a much taller collapsing hi-rise across the street would hit WTC 7, start multi-story fires in it, and break the water main to it, disabling the sprinklers and providing a cover story for the alleged controlled demolition?

    -If the explosives were pre-planted, which would have taken weeks or even months in a vacant building and have been completely impossible to do secretly in an occupied one, and Barry Jennings heard some of them go off around 10 AM, why was there any discussion at all in mid-afternoon about whether or not to demolish WTC 7 with the other apparently fireproof explosives allegedly planted a few stories higher?

    -Do controlled demolitions take seven or eight hours to collapse a building?

    -Do they leave no severed columns with copper residue on the ends, or any other evidence in the debris?

    -Do they leave ~12 stories on one corner standing?

    -Is the FDNY in the controlled demolition business? What other buildings, on fire or not, have they demolished before or since 9/11?

    -Please link me to a C/D contractor’s web site, and show me the use of “pull” or “pull it” to refer to building demolition using explosives, not one in which cables are used to pull an already damaged building over, as was done with WTC 6.

    -How does a “terrible loss of life” in the WTC towers affect a later decision to demolish a nearby building with no one in it?

    -A number of FDNY personnel were inside WTC 7 prior to the pullback order, presumably at risk from the alleged explosives, and most of the 343 FDNY fatalities resulted from the tower collapses, so why are there only a few FDNY in the 9/11 “truth movement”? You can count the number in this “truth” organization right here: firefightersfor911truth.org/?page_id=469 Are they simply not as astute as you are, or don’t they care what killed so many of their colleagues?

    -There was a pre-existing ConEd substation at the Vesey Street WTC 7 site in 1986, and the building was designed to straddle it, requiring some of the extremely long ~45′ girder and ~52′ beam spans inside that contributed to the 9/11 collapse. It was powered up and in full use on 9/11/01, and the demolition of a 200,000 ton, 47-story building directly on top of it very likely destroyed it completely. Do you know whether ConEd’s insurers just absorbed the loss of tens of millions of dollars in infrastructure damage and restoration and then subrogated Industrial Risk Insurers, since Larry Silverstein’s firm was still the responsible party, especially if he deliberately caused the damage?

    You are not honoring the memory of Mr. McIlvaine’s highly successful and accomplished young son or any of the other victims of the 9/11 al Qaeda attacks on the WTC towers by demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the events that occurred that day, and by falsely implicating people who were totally uninvolved in the planning or execution of the Planes Operation, as 9/11 was known to the al Qaeda terrorists behind it.

    Sincere best wishes,

    Albury

  104. The facts arise and each person will choose their truth. Truth cannot be argued into existence. The arguments in favor of an Inside Job are more credible than assuming gross incompetence. This again requires the willingness to let facts hold their own merit and 46 drills are 46 facts. There is not a shred of doubt that these 46 drills occured.

  105. All of this alleged collaboration in the ’80s between the US and what later became al Qaeda is very well documented in The Looming Tower, a Pulitzer Prize-winning book by Lawrence Wright, roggie, which you’ve probably read about as carefully as you’ve read NCSTAR 1, 1A, 1-9, 1-9A, and the various other NIST reports. Bin Laden may have benefited indirectly, but our aid went to the Afghan mujaheddin, not to the Arab-Afghans, who weren’t a big factor in the USSR conflict anyway. The Afghans put them into camps in Pakistan to keep them out of trouble, since they were more interested in becoming martyrs than in killing Soviets, and were considered pretty much a nuisance by the locals.

  106. Levels of numerous toxic substances were dangerously high after the WTC collapses, so did they have a “mercury problem” too, since flourescent lights contain it? Little to no asbestos abatement was needed prior to 9/11 in any of the 3 collapsed WTC hi-rises, regardless of the figures you’re misrepresenting. All buildings contain some asbestos, and it could easily have been three times higher than national standards in air samples after the collapses, but that isn’t evidence of an “asbestos problem” beforehand. The EPA was also citing levels at monitoring stations in surrounding neighborhoods, not directly at the site.

  107. The helicopter crashed on the way IN, roggie, and there were no casualties. The SEALs blew it up when they left, and escaped with your hero’s carcass, which is now well-documented sharksnack.
    This is not something that our “friends” in the Pakistani government were too happy about, but they don’t deny that it was OBL, despite the wealth of “information” from the 9/11 “truth movement.” He reportedly wasn’t very chatty with his neighbors, had no Internet connection, and burned his trash instead of putting it out for pickup.
    My condolences to you, boomie, and others who revered this Man of God.

  108. “For weeks now, I and others have been pointing out that US Intel formed and financed fanatical Islam, the Taliban, Mujahedine, al Qaeda”

    Yes, you NEED it to be true, so that the rest of your faiory tale falls into line. But since it doesn’t, you are forced to repeat it until you convince somebody with a grade level just higher than yours.

    The best part is that you have so little understanding of the ME, you use failed CT websites as your source and they are laughable at best.

    Maybe you can one of yor fellow jihadi-lovers to explain how a entity that has attacked us repeatedly must be created and run by us? Maynbe this is why basic logic is not a facet of the so-called “truth” movement.

    If you REALLY want a good laugh, why not take a trip tot eh ME and get first hand knowledge? We ALL know how “brave” CTists are. You comment from 1000s miles away about a topic you read a website about. Nothing beat experience, this is why yo have nonoe and pretend fiction is real and the Internet woud never lie to you.

  109. The government needed a mandate from the people to go to war against Iraq despite there being no sound or legal premise for doing so.
    They got one by creating the 9/11 disaster and making it ‘appear’ to be a real attack on the US of A.
    This was the start of the new age agenda of the elitist control of the masses. Why I wonder does everyone (well two individuals really), have such a problem believing the truth?

    • “The government needed a mandate from the people to go to war against Iraq ”

      9/11 wasn’t about Iraq. 9/11 was about Afghansitan. Do you think that basic history less than ten years ago can be so missed?

      “They got one by creating the 9/11 disaster and making it ‘appear’ to be a real attack on the US of A.”

      Why didn’t “they” use suspects from the country you think they wanted to attack? Why Saudis?

      “Why I wonder does everyone (well two individuals really), have such a problem believing the truth?”

      Because there is this little inconveniant thing called evidence. Pretending to form a conclusion and only THEN fill in the missing parts is not how research is worked. This is why the “truth” movement has failed over the last 10 years. Holding dearly to the last 1% of the gullible is all you have left.

      Why do you thing Gage needed to invent a new “expert” to keep his paycheck rolling in? He has run out of money and even the other CT leaders are feeling end of their money stream. Griffin can’t wriote enough books, Tarpley and Gage can’t do enough paid speeches and the whole group are hoping to get a last hurrah from the tenth annivesary. Once that is over, the “truthers” will fade away into the level of “Elvis sightings”.

  110. Good to see you are the ony one left in the group that still thinks he is special and not included in reality. How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history for so long?

    Remember, if you don’t like the outcome, pretend it is fake and a grand govt conspiracy to keep the public from knowing only what you know. You are special and only you have the “real ” info.

    When you read about CTists, they WANT to feel that they are special and WANT to think that only they have the “real” info. Hybrid is the textbook CTists and is being studied by experts to know what to expect from such people.

    Desire to be special.
    Typical defense mechanism
    Pretense of knowledge with an ounce of experience.
    Pretending to think that the Intenet is a basic proof of evidence.
    Lack of original thought.
    No formal education.
    Basic hatred of govt.
    Inability to link basic threads of thought.
    Repeating of false notions hoping they are believed.
    Childish and/or other immature reposnses when cornered

    Maybe “ww” will get some help before he hurts himself or somebody else.

    “gawblesmurka” LOL

  111. Perfectly reasonable assumption to link the 9/11 issue with the invasion of Iraq issue.
    Just did a simple Google search. 9/11 link with Iraq. The first thing on the list. Further down there were some comments about there being no link with Iraq as well as many saying there was.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html

    Point is where did Bush invade after 9/11? What did he cite as the reasons for doing so? Terrorist threat to the US of A and the Western world.
    It matters not whether you believe the truth of what happened but citing that the terrorists were Saudi’s as if they had no link to Al Qaeda is a bit like saying Osama was Saudi by birth but not a terrorist either.
    Osama may or may not have plotted the twin towers attack but the final impact which was way beyond the range of two commercial aircraft to inflict unaided by a secondary source of destructive power. Now go pick the bones out of that and stop being a nitpicking classroom pratt!

  112. Would you consider ~500,000 tons stacked up more than 1/4 mile high to be a source of destructive power, itson?

    • Would you consider the energy force required to release this captive 500,000 tons of force? No I didn’t think you would. The force you refer to is locked into a structural framework that in itself is neutral. However its state of neutrality requires a substantial load force or impact force to place it into a positive force sufficient to bring the towers down. So how much energy would that take to dislodge it, (‘it’ being the status quo, the neutral status of the building)?
      This is referred to as the safety factor by the way just in case you were wondering. I don’t suppose you have any data on the inherent safety factor that existed within the structure of the former World Trade Centre would you? I call it the ‘former’ to avoid your nitpicking on details trying to claim that I was somehow referring to the new structure which will sometime soon take shape overlooking downtown Manhattan. Have a nice search for your next posting won’t you.

  113. The energy forces that triggered the WTC collapses are clearly explained in the NIST reports, itson, and the ones pertaining to the towers are largely in plain sight. Can you explain the total lack of evidence for controlled demolition?
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition

  114. A safety factor of 2000? Invisible sky hooks perhaps? Skilling’s deceased, but Les Robertson stamped the tower structurals, and he thinks the controlled demolition “theory” is “absolute nonsense”:
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition
    I’d recommend watching the entire video, but the Robertson segment begins around 18:04.

  115. I love you guys! Of course you are right with just about everything you say.

    The building collapse, the Israeli involvement (interviewed and allowed to leave the country, while patriotic American citizens are being harassed and even killed by their own “protection officers”), al Qaeda friend or foe to suit the occasion, one round hole in the Pentagon supposedly made by a large aircraft with engines and wings that didn’t even mark the walls, etc etc.
    NORAD previous training for dealing with hi-jacked aircraft but not able to cope because they didn’t expect it to happen. Yet there were plenty of people who benefitted obviously expecting it.
    The two stooges making fools of themselves, but probably getting paid for it. Either brainless or on a mission.
    The language a bit remote from a serious debate but extremely entertaining.
    Very enjoyable. I agree that the facts stand up to scrutiny. An inside job.
    Keep up the good work!

  116. What previous training did NORAD have for dealing with hijacked aircraft that originated in US airspace and were intended to be used as weapons by suicidal terrorists? On what occasion was al Qaeda, not Afghan mujaheddin, a friend to the US? This doesn’t seem very friendly-sounding to me:

    “The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.”

    http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen2.htm

    Do your friends threaten to kill you, and then blow up your embassies and Naval vessels?

    • Oh Boy. He’s like a rabid dog attacking anything that moves (and anything that doesn’t too). Any one got a ‘canine rabies shot’ for the poor fool before he goes totally off the deep end?
      Many thanks for the complements Ken. I personally aim to try and entertain and educate. Although really I am only a mere amateur at this game having only possessed a computer since 2002/3. But then I’m a fast learner.  Which is more than can be said about Addlebirdy and his feather brained friend ‘Ifinkitaches’ (which it should do after the ear bashing we have given him/her/it).

    • I have better things to do than debate/argue with you Albury. Your track record is established as really a non-event. All the questions you ask here have been answered above, below or elsewhere.
      You are apparently incapable of understanding reality or, as suggested, you are a stooge for the ungodly.
      If you consider Islamic terrorism as a threat, how do you rate Israeli, US, UK, NATO by comparison? Perhaps you should do some sums on total casualties – deaths, injuries, mental trauma – to military (including their own), and civilians by ‘both sides’.
      You are just not in the right ball-park.

  117. Here is something to think about. How do you reinforce the idea that terrorists are the real culprits? You release news of a threatened attack on a specific anniversary just to convince the masses that your on the ball and keeping your eyes open. Then you ban all gatherings as a safety precaution and maintain that ban until it suits you to do otherwise.
    So what is proposed over the next week or so?
    Well there is the 9/11 memorial events.
    And there is the Wall Street protest on the 17th September.
    http://www.readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/72-72/7341-americas-tahrir-moment
    Now what do you think will make more sense? Let an attack happen on 9/11 Memorial Day or use the threatened attack as an excuse to ban the proposed protests in Wall Street to appease the real masters of the Universe? Ooh! Decisions, decisions. What we going to do? Its simple really. Why waste effort to stop the protest in Wall Street? Why not let the bad guys plant a bomb or send in some nutters with AK47’s and a few suicide bombs and create merry madness among the revellers and you say sorry later. ‘But we did warn you however we uphold your constitutional rights to protest (see we’re really nice like that) but the bad guys got to you and we’re really sorry. Sorry because now we are going to have to ban all gatherings for the safety of the people of the US of A’. Another erosion of freedom engineered to look like a really caring act on the part of the government. It makes their life so much easier. Think I’m joking?
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/specific-credible-threat-911-memorials.html

  118. 9 US presidents and counting have all been too stupid to realize that Israel deliberately attacked us in 1967:
    http://hnn.us/articles/369.html

  119. Great embellishment on the Securacom/Stratesec yarn, roggie, but have you linked Kevin Bacon, Larry Silverstein, Wile E. Coyote, NIST, FEMA, and the FDNY to them?

  120. “Careful investigation leads one to notice…”

    Everytime I see a CTist write stuff like this, I can’t help but laugh.

    [URLs are missing because the author doesn't want you to know he has no clue what research actually is]

    They all must be from the same canned CT website.

  121. A Monk Asked

    A monk asked Chao-chou Ts’ung shen (777-897) (Joshu), “Has the oak tree Buddha nature?”
    Chao-chou said, “Yes, it has.”
    The monk said, “When does the oak tree attain Buddhahood?”
    Chao-Chou said, “Wait until the great universe collapses.”
    The monk said, “When does the universe collapse?”
    Chao-chou said, “Wait until the oak tree attains Buddhahood.

    - The Gateless Barrier, The Wu-Men Kuan (Mumonkan),
    Translated by Robert Aitken, Case 37

  122. You proved that a company called Stratesec exists, and that someone named Walker is connected to it. Is that all?

  123. The Co-intel and disinfo game is a capricious mistress – to be good one must combine all the right elements of genuine guile and snarkery – hard to imagine we could opine for the old days with Tom Murphy – now there was an agent who had style, even some wit thrown into his banter. He puts to shame these oafish clods we have been burdened with lo these many months. A few points for Arlbooby though, for shear perseverance if nothing else, and he is definitely the most tolerable out of this recent gaggle – but that’s like saying I like this genital wart far above all the other cancerous sores around the festering peri-anal region.

  124. The alleged SEs who claim that steel melted to cause any WTC collapse belong in your “truth movement.”

  125. Office fires do not get hot enough to melt steel, roggie, but they do produce temperatures sufficient to reduce its yield strength by more than 80%. These guys sound more like Box Boy’s “engineers” than competent SEs.

  126. Your comment on Albury is right – like a dog with a bone.
    Can’t think straight.
    Impervious to insult.
    Maybe he gets paid for it, I wonder what he really thinks?
    Rarely do I resort to insults, but he just SO deserves it.

  127. Dumping on the NIST engineers out of ignorance does not produce one iota of evidence for explosives, roggie. I don’t know who those clowns are, but no one from NIST claims that steel melted to cause any WTC collapse, so you’ve just presented a dandy straw man. Looks like you picked up a toady too.

  128. Dear Public:
    Holy fartsplats; my primary source for the secrets of 9/11 is pissed at me for asking him questions. Please fill in the void.
    Thanks in advance,
    Albury

  129. I read the entire series of books years ago and wondered then when we would develop the idea into a form that could be used to predict the future of humanity.
    It seems like we didn’t have to wait very long after all. 

  130. Polls Show Widespread Doubt About Official Explanations

    The results of polls on peoples’ beliefs about 9/11 around the world might surprise you:

    In its January 2011 issue, the popular German magazine “Welt der Wunder” published the results of a poll conducted by the Emnid institute on 1005 respondents. The poll indicated that nearly 90% percent of Germans are convinced that the government of the United States is not telling the whole truth about the September 11 attacks
    A new poll conducted in England by ICM shows that more UK residents agree than disagree that the official account of what happened on 9/11 might turn out to be wrong in important respects. Only 8% strongly agree that they have been told the full story of the 9/11 attacks
    A new poll conducted in France by HEC Paris shows that 58% of French people doubt the official version of 9/11, and 49% believe the U.S. government might have intentionally allowed the attacks to happen
    A Zogby poll conducted in August 2007 found that 51% of Americans want Congress to probe Bush/Cheney regarding the 9/11 attacks, two-thirds (67%) of Americans say the 9/11 Commission should have investigated the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7
    A poll conducted by CNN-IBN in August 2007 found that only 2 out of 5 of those polled in India – the world’s second most populous country – believe that al-Qaeda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks
    Indeed, a poll taken by World Public Opinion, a collaborative project of research centers in various countries managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, College Park, polled 16,063 people in 17 nations outside of the United States during the summer of 2008. They found that majorities in only 9 of the 17 countries believe Al Qaeda carried out the attacks. The poll showed that in the world’s most populous country – China – only 32% believed that Al Qaeda carried out the attacks.

  131. Pingback: Kristoffer Hell » 9/11 – TIO ÅR SENARE

  132. To the public, except for roggie, whom I mustn’t address:

    Here’s more from Mark Roberts-
    http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/
    Here’s his clear video explanation of why the WTC collapses weren’t explosive demolitions-
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition

    Unlike Box Boy and others in the 9/11 “truth movement,” Roberts actually deals in facts.

  133. To all of the public except roggie:
    There’s no evidence that anyone filming the WTC on 9/11 was in on the al Qaeda suicide attacks, and their purpose was the same as hundreds of others’.

    • That is a bold faced lie, and this point is only one that represents a contingent element whereupon your argument fails, and therefore you are exposed as being either mentally challenged, or complicit in the crime as an accessory after the fact. Imagine if 200+ Muslims were arrested and the FBI themselves stated that they were involved in the crime, do you honestly believe you would try and say they were not in on the attacks? I’m convinced you don’t do a damned thing honestly, the way you peddle such effing dribble and pretend to keep a straight face. Now stop being such an idiot – if somebody says they were there to document the event, it presupposes they had foreknowledge of said event – If the FBI says that evidence exists linking this party to the crime, but its classified – what the fuck other evidence do you require to establish this party as being complicit?

  134. There were not 200 of them, and they did not say that they were there to document the event; they were asked what they were doing, and answered that they were documenting it. From today’s 9/11 video coverage, it appears that many others were doing the same thing.
    Do you honestly think the FBI would have released them if there had been a shred of evidence linking them to the attacks? How sad…

    • I have been commenting on blogs for years. I said earlier, it is rare for me to feel or show disrespect fo others. I simply have to make an exception in your case Albury. Your inability to see the ‘bleedin’ obvious and your desire to argue against it, indicate that your brain is a bit short of functioning material. If you are unable to understand the English/American language or comprehend clear descriptions and statements you are wasting your time. Your addressing your remarks to the public on this forum is an insult to the public. You are simply making a fool of yourself.

  135. thank you ken and hybridrogue.
    hybrid, please continue and quit letting albury interrupt.

  136. ww,
    we might have underrated their confidence all along and now. the long slide into harder fascism has been relentless and easy for them so far. the fascists speed the process as disaster capitalism allows and helps.

    throughout all this, as we learn more that we were raised believing was wrong, we get to sit back and look at every crank idea and re-examine. seems like learning details of each idea along with the origin and motives of originators is often more of value in predictive skills.

    aka take a look at every crazy idea put forward lately and get an overall perspective on what is possible and where some of these ideas converge and overlap. as a sage once said, consider what we knew 500 years ago, what we knew 100 years ago, what we know today. imagine what we will know tomorrow. the sarcastic tone of those statements compelled one to consider what we wrongly believed we knew and know and will know. sooooooo..

    any one got a clue as to how one worker can bring down power for 1.4 million folk for 3 days and these always honest forthright clear thinking leaders still do not have a bright shiny answer as to how it happened and will not happen again? any one look at solar flare intensity records and forecasts recently? these guys might be struggling with a weakened infrastructure under new stressors while they struggle with the process of presenting a strong image.

  137. Its a bit like teaching children. The 9/11 was a way to teach the children that there was a (percieved) threat simply to suit the hidden agenda of those in power. The problem is that not all the children have learned or are willing to learn ‘the story’ that is being told because some of those children are looking out the classroom window waiting for the bell to ring and they are seeing a different world view.
    So how do you educate these children that do not believe in ‘the story’?
    You hit them again with more evidence. But there is no more evidence of atrocities so you create some.

    So whay Hybrid has said ‘things are going to get a bit weird’ you bet they are and like I said over the weekend there will be some sort of strike somewhere on US soil and it won’t be a terrorist strike but a false flag strike. One that can be presented as further proof of a need for anti-terrorist laws and controls and further erosion of freedom.
    But the strike will take the form of a double strike. One which hits once but has two benefits for those in power. The first part will be to disperse a protest against something the government is doing that the people don’t want them to do and the second as that means of proof they need to kill off any lingering doubts about ‘the story’ by those of us who look out the classroom window.
    .One thing the people in power hadn’t reckoned with is the fact that 9/11 was one false flag strike too many and too far. In the past they could get away with it because only a few could communicate the truth at any one time due to limited means of communication facilities. Now we have instant connectivity and the means to spread the word to a greater global audience. The internet is one of the most powerful tools left to us. We need to protect that freedom now more than ever before because even though it may allow big brother to watch us they cannot watch everyone and respond to everyone at the same time. They simply do not have sufficient resources to do that. Hence bills in senate to control the internet and its users. That is an invasion of privacy too far.

    Wait for the next event to happen. It will be a biggie I reckon. But they will have to be careful how they play it because they can so very easily open the can of worms and alert so many people to what really went down on 9/11.
    My deepest sympathies to the families of those who fell with the towers that day. Murder is murder no matter who commits the crime. What we need to do is find the real criminals, including the accessories to the crime and I mean all of them.
    354 responses and counting. Not all of them legit.

  138. Da’ Joos did it, celebrated publicly, got arrested, and then the FBI released them. Yeah; that’s it.
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

  139. Would someone here please inform American and United Airlines that their planes may be ok, and didn’t crash on 9/11?

  140. American and United Airlines may be offering finder’s fees for one 767 and one 757 each. Please contact them with all of the information you have, which apparently is a lot more than the NTSB, FAA, FBI, thousands of eyewitnesses, coroners, forensics experts, passengers’ relatives, etc.
    Opportunity knocks…

  141. Very funny, Albury. A comedian, no less!

  142. You guys deliver the punch lines, Ken. My friend roggie’s still beating a dead horse about some Israelis who wanted to get arrested for the 9/11 al Qaeda suicide attacks.
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis

  143. See something, say something – and with that kind of evidence, the FBI swings into action dispensing swift justice – with full disclosure of all relevant facts to the public, whom they honour every day with unending dignity, pride, and a unique sense of integrity that comes with fulfilling one’s noble purpose in life.

  144. The FBI did not find any link to these people, or their 4 plane hijackings in a suicide attack on the US:
    http://ee.1asphost.com/raehatualmisk/19.html
    and released the 5 Israelis, whose crime was taking videos of the fires in the WTC. Fortunately, dozens of others weren’t arrested for the same crime, so we have substantial video documentation of the event. It bore no resemblance, audibly or visibly, to this:
    http://www.break.com/index/landmark_tower_demolition.html
    despite 9/11 “researchers” who claim that it did.

  145. I was wondering why our hosts here become so lyrical in their language when they respond to you Albury. I am beginning to understand why! Your logic is absurd, your arguments are nonsense. Your comprehension is negligible. I will have to shut up or also resort to abusive language.
    Please tell me why innocent American citizens, including children, grandmothers and pregnant women are being groped by TSA officials when there is absolutely no justification? These people are insane and so are you!

  146. Another thought.
    I’ve plenty of time to think, because like others, my keyboarding speed, never great, is being reduced to kindergarten level.
    Can some, perhaps impartial reader, comment on the relevant validity of Albury’s comments, as compared to mine or other like comments?
    OR should I be presumptuous and just ignore him?

  147. Will,
    thank you.
    j

  148. i am not so sure how this plays out will,
    seen much on this lately?

    hard to tell how much is psyops and how much is coming that is way over even the nwo’s head.
    starting to look like the global katrina neolibs and neocons are planning on might not work out as planned.
    even when it looks like some of them have been planning for centuries.

  149. Since you have plenty of time to think, Ken, please think about this:
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition

  150. wisdom is there when one looks within at all.
    my greek is not. ta panta nous = everything mind?
    if so, good.
    japanese – english: mushin = no mind
    more accurately open heart
    and zero distraction
    and all mind
    and complete focus…..

    yep trying to take in the elenin nebiru storyline in terms of navigating short term disaster capitalist efforts.
    agreed it is all the blink of an eye.
    favorite character in “musashi” – takuan is the role model.
    nothing matters so much.
    doing right doing well be better help others

    even if the alburys and iaaffiliates get enough traction to rule the world, we still need to do good.
    details help that.

    here is a curious idea. anyone consider the possibility that the elenin watchers are right in varying degrees in varying ways? that she comes around every 13,000 years or so, scourges the planet of whatever civilizations (as defined by derek jensen) are in power and then recedes to let the planet repopulate?

    interesting enough if this has been going on with slight variations for eons. quite a twist if a few have been surviving these periodic visits.

    wonder what twain was thinking when he penned “a connecticut yankee in king arthur’s court?” wonder if he penned before or after his friendship started with tesla.

  151. What did you specifically find wrong with this video?
    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC_Not_A_Demolition
    Are the structural engineers in it all lying?

  152. I watched the video, Albury.

    There are some stupid comments, like acres of concrete (an acre is an area, not a volume), and another saying the dust was mainly building materials other than dust, showing photos of concrete rubble, then later saying the dust was concrete.

    Showing demolitions over and over again demonstrating explosive noises was a bit of overkill.
    Then one minute they say it takes only small amounts of explosive to create freefall demolition, the next minute that hundreds of tons would be needed.

    I don’t know about these things but some explosive and/or other destructive materials may be relatively quiet. In such a tall structure, a series of separately timed explosives may not be necessary. The noise level of the whole collapsing structure would have been horrendous.
    The hearing, feeling and seeing the damage from explosions by some witnesses could hardly be mis-interpretations. There were explosions!
    So what this boils down to is believing some engineering experts who claim ‘demolition’, impossible otherwise, OR some who say natural result of collision and/or fire.

    The major problem that you, Albury, have to overcome, is that it is not just one aspect of the truth scenario that you need to come to grips with, it is many.
    Another thing to ponder is the incentive factor. There are many on the side of the ungodly, but what reason is there for the public to doubt the official story? What is there to gain?
    Even the 9/11 commission report admits there are many incorrect and incomplete findings. Then there are the ones they don’t admit to which are blatantly obvious.

  153. The author of the letter to the editor, UL’s manager of its Fire Protection division, Tom Chapin, wrote in defense of ASTM E119, the standard test UL had used to ensure fire resistance of the buildings. The NYC code, which UL’s CEO had confirmed to me was used to guide the testing, required two hours of fire resistance for the steel columns and 3 hours of fire resistance for floor assemblies. One of the buildings fell in 56 minutes.~Kevin Ryan

    Oops! Someone missed that one.

  154. They can’t give up their gig just like that – and imagine if they were not paid whores – What kind of an average guy hangs around forever like a bad stink arguing with a vast majority of folks who hate him, have no respect for his supposed intelligence, and in no way are influenced by all of his weak, ridiculous and fallacious arguments? Only the kind of shmuck who is afraid of the alternative scenario presented in today’s job market, where his skills and professional acumen place him high on the list of potential candidates for a job at Home Depot, but only if the cleaning staff is in need.

    The only reason I do not nuke his ass off of every one of these posts is best represented by the age old proverb – give the bastards enough rope and they will only end up hanging themselves, Guess what Al-booby? – you’re well hung.

  155. Here, here! Couldn’t have put it better myself. Hung out to dry.

  156. Take the flashes away and you still have holes appearing in the front of the building. That is seen clearly on the official film footage and most people I have spoken with have never heard of the building 7 collapse or tower seven for our pedantic know it all alibunny.

  157. Will,
    so far we have done an admirable job dealing with a belligerently bad (as in low quality) and horribly malignant magic show. the magician’s identity, the methods and the victims are obvious to most all now. the only point of fact keeping that magician from being laughed into oblivion by the rest of humanity is that magician’s vast resources currently being used to crush the rest of humanity.

    here is the request. start a new thread on better understanding that deceiver and what their humanity crushing plans are. and how we are to avoid and/or avert them.

    the red king’s brazen behavior is what concerns us. when he moves this openly, he knows of some pending natural or manmade disaster that is about to cover his tracks. the red king is inducing global economic collapse and ensuing wars as he has always done. one differences here is that he is doing it on a larger scale with more technology.

    another and more pertinent difference is how openly he is moving. given how long we have been able to discuss this in a media he is controlling (and that he believes he is providing for us), one might extrapolate that he has further and worse plans along with a suddenly reduced concern of being discovered.

    why is that? how is that? where do we want to be?

  158. yep ww, read it last week. worth reading again this week.

    please do more like it soon. far more productive than time wasted with albury. even if the expletives get descriptionally entertaining.

  159. Orwellian indeed. War is Peace, Truth is propaganda. History is whatever the victor writes.
    Now, Albury.
    “Nanothermite quietly and secretly cut 83 columns in WTC 7, Joe. The smallest one weighed 500#/lineal foot and had a cross-sectional area of ~1.04 square feet, and the larger ones looked like this:”
    So this immensely strong steel building that was impervious to explosive type devices somehow totally collapsed because of fire related weakening or distortion. I prefer the deliberate”pulling” theory.
    As I said before, to ‘win’ your argument you have to logically refute about 101 different scenarios which are strongly supported by evidence. Evidence you say is concocted by thousands of “truthers’, why?, because we don’t like George W Bush?
    Admittedly, we don’t like him or the TSA, but we have gone to a hell of a lot of trouble, haven’t we? All for nothing, apparently, because all the time the ‘official story’ was correct and it all happened the way you say it did.
    You got to be joking Albury! Either that or your brain is dysfunctional.

  160. Why is it that I cannot help myself?
    As you say, Hybrid, the falseness of the official story is self-evident.
    Just the exact truth and details and precisely “who did what to whom and who is paying the rent”, have yet to become fully public.
    Albury and his comments are both of useless technical value to your blog.
    Dismissing him literally, however, would remove the entertainment factor that he provides.

  161. sorry to party poop dudes.
    entertainment = distraction.
    it is another one of the red kings goals.

  162. At this point he is just babbling incoherently, although a mere passer-by comparing such inane drivel with earlier attempts to form coherent sentences would find the difference barely discernible. Would that I could wield such power with the wisdom of Ptolemy, all the while dispensing justice with the alacrity and fairness of Judge Roy Bean – Mayhaps a vote with you good fellows: Posit this – AlBooby the clod, who refuses to answer vital questions while continually drooling nonsense and rebuke, shall we nuke him or let him stay? Please remember, with such awesome power as you now possess, comes equal measure of responsibility.

    • shall we put that to a vote? ban him?

      • itsonlyausername

        I’ll stick with my comment on this that appears below. Democracy has its down side. However if we lose Hybrid we lose a source of valuable information. If we lose Albury we lose our democratic status, despite his babbling and frothing madness.

        • I’m okay with letting albury stay because I don’t mind debate.

          hybrid crossed the line by threatening me and calling me a cunt. and that’s after threatening a 911 shill (not albury).

          he is never welcome back.

  163. Hi All. Even a clown has a voice but in Albury’s case we know it is mere dribble. Unfortunately for us to continue to be seen as being fair and honourable we would still (I feel) be obliged to let the dribbler have his stage. The way to deal with this is to maybe follow Joe’s observation. Albury is a distraction so let’s not get distracted. Let’s simply ignore him. On the other hand give the monkey enough rope and he may hang himself. Depends on how many Albury really is? Is he two people? Or even three? Maybe he’s even more. Remember the Astroturfers work several ID’s at once but sometimes they work in collusion with a group of other idiots who have an agenda to hype.
    I leave it to the rest to offer their ultimate decisions and I will follow the majority. Still I think if he has in anyway violated internet protocols by maybe hacking a site or something similar to what IEaffiliates has done then he should be booted off. Being a bore is one thing but breaking the law is another.

  164. Fair comments ‘Itsonly’.
    A distraction?, yes. But only of nuisance value.
    If more than one, they exhibit very similar type low mentality, but perhaps that would not be surprising.
    The main benefits of publishing ‘anti’ views, no matter how stupid, I guess, is to make it more obvious that we are right and also we get more information that we can demonstrate is incorrect.
    Main problem with Albury is he ignores/forgets/doesn’t comprehend all preceding information. (‘Repeats and repeats in our ear’). Hence the word ‘bore’ is appropriate.
    Again, if more than one, we don’t know which might be ‘the hacker’.

  165. BTW, I think he has effectively hung himself, more than once!
    (Curious that my comments are now subject to ‘moderation’)

    • all comments are now being moderated since hybrid started threatening people.

      it’s too bad that one bad apple can ruin it for everyone.

  166. rady. seriously. even with my anti-entertainment values that makes me want to read what will wrote.

    that is way too bad. will is alot of what i returned here for.

    my vote is to ban albury and request will to apologize – to us not albury.

    will. what were you thinking?

    seriously. like that was not one of if not the only goal albury had all along?

  167. upon further review. revise that vote. will does deserve a rebuke and moderation if threatening folk (if that is the appropriate term for albury). and i do trust rady’s value system so far. banning albury is a mistake though. the shun is much better. ignore the expletive deleted. perhaps he will tire and go away. or consider himself compelled to at least sound more intelligent.

  168. wow. i cannot even think up a sarcastic blame the victim (as in she should not have worn that short a skirt) stupid enough think to make fun of will with. had expected a parting shot of that sort from albury at some point.

    up is down, ingnorance is….

    will keep an eye out for where will resurfaces and if and how he ever addresses that little mistake. hmmm. dam it is so tempting to make a crack here and so dam impossible to make it funny. where’s carlin when we need him?

  169. Tried commenting earlier, curious as to hybrids threat, What’s with that

  170. would that you were talking about carlin instead of will.

  171. Wow! I must have missed something.
    I cannot remember seeing any Hybrid threats or insults so cannot comment other than to say, your judgement, Rady, and authority, I respect.
    Albury was the suspect contributor, to leave his comments and remove Hybrid’s is an insult to Hybrid which may have been your intention.
    However, it makes Albury’s comments seem worthy of inclusion, definitely unfortunate.
    Hybrid’s comments were the central part of this particular thread. They provided an immense amount of relevant information, perhaps a little too colourful, but not without provocation.
    This thread has now died.
    I agree with Joe, ban and remove Albury’s useless dribble, and ask Hybrid for an apology to Rady and COTO and maybe an explanation?

    • joe changed his vote, ken:

      “banning albury is a mistake though. the shun is much better”

      • Sorry, missed that. However my own comment wasn’t influenced by him.
        See Albury has lost his presence, which makes sense to me.
        I presume the difference between a ban and a ‘shun’ is that shun means we just don’t reply to his comments.
        Pity about Hybrid, as I said, his input was significant. The thread is now effectively empty.
        Now its on again on another post.
        Regards!

  172. Pingback: Another Drill Baby Drill | The Sandy Monocle

  173. this discussion about wm whitten is over.